How to make AI do overhead traffic patterns?

[santinif4]

Hello, not sure if this is the correct forum for my question but I have looked in the other ones and can't seem to find any better place than this to post this question. Admittedly I am fairly new to AI operations as I have only just begun researching the various different software titles that produce flight plans and control AI aircraft etc, and I only just now have stumbled across this website specifically for military AI.

I am interested in creating AI traffic that will fly overhead patterns at military training bases like Laughlin AFB and Columbus AFB etc. I would like to have T 38 and T6A's specifically populate the traffic pattern to make it more realistic. Can anybody point me in the right direction for which AI software would work and how to get the aircraft to do those things?

I have run WofAI but I uninstalled it after it killed all the native FSX traffic. I understand there is a method to convert FS9 files into FSX format which will prevent that from happening, but I have not yet looked deeply into that. If in fact that is the way to go that's fine but I wonder if there are other ways to put AI aircraft into some sort of traffic pattern without using world of AI.

I have also successfully downloaded and installed AIFP and gone to the airport at the time specified and have found the aircraft that I added. However, I still cannot figure out how to make the aircraft remain in the pattern and do overheads. I would much prefer a solution using AIFP instead of world of AI. I hope someone can help!

Thanks
Mike

[Firebird]

Hi Mike.
As I am in an airline lounge in DFW at the moment I can't make this post too long, which will be a relief to most people, but all I will do is ask the question whether what you want to do is create VFR (roller) and IFR (overshoot) circuits or whether you were looking for something more complicated.
If the answer is that those two types of approach are what you were after then you are in luck, anything more complicated and you are out of luck.

Now by the time I get home hopefully somebody else will explain to you the basics but having AIFP installed is definitely the way to go. I believe that it will even highlight and convert FS9 traffic files to FSX format for you. This means that you will be able to run WoAI traffic as well as stuff you have created or even stuff that we make available.

[clickclickdoh]

Unfortunately, there is currently no known way to make AI traffic do an overhead pattern. If someone does figure out how to make AI do an overhead break, they will be the hero of the military AI community.

[santinif4]

Hello and thanks for the quick replies...

I'n not exactly sure what you mean by "VFR (roller) and IFR (overshoot) circuits" so I don't know if I'm in luck or not but all I want them to do is takeoff, pulled closed to an inside downwind and then roll off the perch for a touch and go and do it all over again. Just a regular old closed traffic pattern, As far as having them break into the inside downwind from initial isn't all that necessary (would be cool though!) but as long as they stay in the traffic pattern and just do touch and goes is all I am really looking to do.

Thanks
Mike

PS I have heard there is something about forcing AIFP traffic to do touch and goes if you change the ETA to some time earlier than the computed ETA if you have the TNG box ticked. I think it tries to fill in the time until computed landing with touch and goes? But I haven't gotten that to work...

[clickclickdoh]

Okay, you just want regular touch and go patterns, no problem.

Step 1: Chose which type of pattern you want:

IFR TnG patterns will take the plane out to a ten mile final, then go missed just before touch down. The plane never touches down.

VFR TnG patterns will stay closer in to the field and involve a full touch down, roll then takeoff again.

Some things to consider when choosing. Larger planes almost always need to use IFR pattern because they don't have the turn radius for the smaller VFR pattern. Conversely, I almost always use VFR for slow aircraft like helicopters because watching a 10 mile final at 60 knots will make your eyes bleed. With a VFR TnG, the aircraft will land, slow to 40 knots, then accelerate to take off again. This may cause over runs on short runways or with aircraft with poor braking or acceleration.

Once you have chosen which pattern type you want, setting up the TnG in AIFP is pretty simple. It consists of two flights.

The first flight you select the TnG option on then make a regular flight plan from the airport to itself. AIFP will probably suggest something close to a 15 minute flight. What I do then is go to the "Override ETA" box and add 15 minutes for each trip around the pattern I want it to do. So, for example, if AIFP wanted the flight to arrive at 1300, I would put in 1330 for two trips around the pattern.

So, what should happen, is the plane would take off and do TnGs until 1330. At that point it stops doing TnGs and flies away waiting for a new command.

The second flight brings the plane home. Instead of using the suggested start time, type in the end of TnG time, plus 3 minutes. So, in this case 1333. Leave the ETA as whatever the computer thinks it should be.

[Victory103]

santinif4, I tried to something like this with a program at the time called "AISIDSTAR", which would use the slew functions of fs and move AI. Initially designed for AI airliners to properly fly the instrument departures/arrivals the same as the user.

I was trying for standard military patterns at my MAIW airports similar to real world where I could land several AI in a short time with "overhead" and "carrier break" traffic patterns. I somewhat got it work but the AI FDE is the limitation. I now see the developer had continued to update the program. Another developer has adjusted the AI code for realistic maneuvering in FSX.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/4989 ... nt-3519607

[santinif4]

Thanks again for the info guys - I will try the method you outlined clickclickdoh. just to make sure I understand this when you say make two flights are those 2 separate flight plans, or 2 legs on the same flight plan? In either case , on the second leg/flight do I still make the departure and destination airport the same?

[clickclickdoh]

Two legs, and yes, same airport on the departure and destination.

[Firebird]

There is a couple of things that you should be aware of.
Firstly, if the weather/visibility is poor the AI engine does change a VFR approach to an IFR one sometimes. Nothing you can do about that unless you control the weather.

Secondly, if an aircraft is VFR will NOT avoid terrain, so if you have it flying at a height and there are some mountains in the way it will happily fly straight into them. If an aircraft is IFR it will adjust height to avoid terrain but this can make for some tricky descents at some airports.

I will admit here that I am talking about FS9 so FSX and above may be different but watch out for these occurrences.

[flyerkg]

I was able to get Harriers to somewhat do an overhead break at MCAS Yuma a couple of years ago, using a dummy ICAO and invisible runway at pattern altitude and couple of miles ahead of the active runway on Yuma.

The AI flight plan would include a TNG at the dummy airfield causing it to turn to crosswind directly over the active Yuma runway.

The TNG would be timed with an almost immediate departure so that while still on downwind the AI would contact Yuma tower and get cleared to land at Yuma.

There were several setbacks:

I could not assign these approaches to both ends of the airfield because that would require flightplans to multiple dummy airfields regardless of wind directions. So I closed RWY 3R and 3L for landings. Using just RWY 21R for the approaches and 21L for departures.

Touchdown effects could be seen in the sky at 1000 ft AGL about 2 to 3 NM from Yuma due to the TNG at dummy airfield being part of VFR flight plan. So the Overhead pattern ends up being a lot wider than it would be in real life.

AI turns in pattern are based on civilian aircraft performance and are not as aggressive as military patterns. So no "Smokin Hot" Carrier Breaks!

I am also playing with AISIDSTAR and found a KMZ file for NAS Whiting Field course rules. I am turning those grid coordinates for turning points into STAR and like the success I am having with it.

[Victory103]

I never thought of the fake AFD and did notice the issue with the AI FDE. With the AISIDSTAR or AIController as it it now, I made a few STARs out of busy airports to help with traffic flow, even some of the VFR departures out of Nellis AFB. I didn't have a PMDG model, so I had to input the lat/long. data by hand, very time consuming. Course rules make sense out of busy training fields like Whiting/Corpus/Kingsville.

[flyerkg]

I think I am getting close to getting AISIDSTAR to force T-6 Texan II's into overhead patterns. The downwind is too close to the runway right now. Additionally, I am not getting the program to play by the rules with regards to entry points for Some of the STARS I have programmed. Maybe they are too close to each other and confusing AI.