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The Twins AI traffic help

All things Military AI that don't fit anywhere else.
ConcordeBOAF
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

Tucano flying over F-16s and A10s
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John Young
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

What fixed it - removing the traffic files and switching off the rest of your UK scenery?

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

That's where I am stumped. When I switch one Johns RAF Coningsby all the AI disappears. Are there any FS9 bgls in RAF Coningsby?
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

To be clear, it's not FS9 scenery .bgls that will stop FSX AI traffic, it's FS9 traffic files. Those traffic files would normally be in your scenery\world\scenery folder, so switching off Coningsby shouldn't make any difference, unless you have a traffic file in your Coningsby\scenery folder. Do you have a traffic file in there (it should have "traffic" in the title)?

Can I first confirm that you can now see a detailed Bentwaters with A-10s and F-16's? but only with Coningsby switched off, or are you saying you can't see any AI at Coningsby as well as Bentwaters and Woodbridge?

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

Its working
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

Is it possible, rather than just answering with two words, you could actually answer my last question please so that we can understand what exactly is working and what the problem was? What process did you use to get "it" working?

Which version of my RAF Coningsby do you have installed - FS9 or FSX?
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

I use the FSX version of RAF Coningsby.
I unchecked all my addon sceneries to make it work
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

So have you used a process of elimination to determine what scenery was causing the problem or are all the sceneries apart from the Twins still unchecked?

If you have narrowed the cause down to Coningsby, have you found the problem and if so what is it? When all other sceneries are re-instated apart from Coningsby, does the Twins AI still show, ie, are you sure Coningsby is the only culprit?

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by Firebird »

Pardon me if I am getting confused by a different version but I seem to remember that a version of Coningsby had Jaguar traffic bgls installed in the scenery. Could this be the cause?

To confirm this what you need to do is re-activate the Coningsby scenery and then use AIFP to check for FS9 traffic files - using the cunningly named ' Find FS9 Traffic Files' option.
What you must do is select the scenery lib option when you run the traffic finder. It will check every folder that is activated in your scenery.cfg . It is not a tool that you can use on a base by base check.
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

I downloaded and installed my FSX RAF Coningsby this morning so that I could do some checking. It was produced more than 11 years ago but I haven't used it for years because Ian has produced a better and more up to date scenery of the same airfield.

The traffic file in the zip is called "Traffic_EGXC.bgl" and it looks like it's an FS9 file. However, it only uses single day coding, with the same movements on every day of the week. With that file present in FSX\scenery\world\scenery I went to Bentwaters. It didn't kill the AI. I think that in any case after more than 11 years in use, someone would have flagged a problem with it, but they haven't.

I have though run the file through the AIFP converter. If you have "Traffic_EGXC.bgl" in play, replace it with the one attached.

Now switch on all your scenery and make live all your traffic files. Then go to Bentwaters. Do you see the AI aircraft?

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

Thinking about this further and checking it again, my RAF Coningsby was designed in 2007 for the SP1 patched version of FSX. It was produced before Microsoft released the SP2 update. That huge update killed backward compatibility with any scenery elements that were designed with the old SCASM code - principally for items like trees and ground polygons. Anyone using it with an up to date FSX today would notice two things - the ground polygon and tree transparencies would render black as I've just confirmed. The SCASM objects do actually get processed, but at the cost of a very severe drop in frame rate, ie down to around 12 fps, which is pretty unusable. It's quite probable that SP2 also introduced the date coding change in FSX traffic files.

Either way, my RAF Coningsby is not compatible with a present day fully patched FSX.

Are you sure ConcordeBOAF that you are using my Coningsby scenery, or are you using Ian's?

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

John Young wrote: 27 Feb 2019, 20:02 So have you used a process of elimination to determine what scenery was causing the problem or are all the sceneries apart from the Twins still unchecked?

If you have narrowed the cause down to Coningsby, have you found the problem and if so what is it? When all other sceneries are re-instated apart from Coningsby, does the Twins AI still show, ie, are you sure Coningsby is the only culprit?

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

I am using your scenery as its ACG scenery
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

All works now John. Now that I have the ability to make AI work, how do I get AI to fly an airshow?
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

Two quick checks if you wouldn't mind please:

Open the front page of the manual for RAF Coningsby. Does it have my name on it or Ian McCarney's (also ACG)?

Next go to FSX Help-about FSX and tell me what version you have?

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

FSX version is Gold
Coningsby is Ians
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by Firebird »

ConcordeBOAF wrote: 28 Feb 2019, 16:38 All works now John. Now that I have the ability to make AI work, how do I get AI to fly an airshow?
Seriously. Stop asking this.
I think that only 2 or 3 people here have ever done what you are asking for and I think only 1 actually engineered it in the first place. the other 2 took his work to pieces and modified the principle to work in their releases.
The guy that invented the process did not write it down so there is nothing that we can tell you on how to achieve what you want.

I would suggest that if you really think you could do it then do as they do and take apart the traffic file, I would suggest the 'Traffic_EGXC_Jaguar_6Sqn.bgl' from the Coningsby package as it is the simplest.
If, as i suspect, it all looks confusing to you then leave that well alone until you have got way more experience in flight plan programming. I am not being unhelpful here or overly harsh. I have been involved here since the beginning and so i know a bit about the subject.

What I would suggest to you that if BTW/WDB is now working as it should then i would suggest that you try and install another of our packages of your choice. If that goes OK and you get traffic then that should prove that your system is in a good state for AI.

Then try sending an aircraft to a base that you want a show to be held. When that works, send another and another and so.
When you have done that then make sure that all the aircraft go home again.
I would suggest that they all arrive on one day, leave the next day for your static and/or airshow, then send them all home on the third day.

when, and only when, you have done that should you even contemplate a flying display and even then it maybe beyond you.
You have to learn how every works and then work out how to break the system as there is no system for airshows, in the same way that there is no system for run and breaks nor pairs take-offs and landings. You have to learn how to abuse the rules to get what you want.

I again i say that in my opinion your enthusiasm is way ahead of your abilities. People here will help you with issues and problems as you learn, but the fact that you asked the question shows how much you have to learn.
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by John Young »

I'm quietly tearing my hair out at the moment Concorde BOAF because I just can't get to grips with your inability to answer simple questions. You said quite categorically that it was "John's" RAF Coningsby. That wasted 2 hours of my time this morning trying to work through what in that scenery could cause you a problem. All along, it was not my scenery at all but Ian's, which is a completely different package. It's actually designed for FSX SP2/Gold and is compatible with your FSX. It is widely used and should cause no problems.

The thing is it Ian's Coningsby doesn't come with any AI traffic - you have to adapt your own from an FS9 MAIW Typhoon package. If in doing that you have created a traffic file that has prevented AI from loading at Bentwaters and Woodbridge, then what chance something as hugely complex as AI traffic for an air show? Nobody here could teach you how to do that if you dodge the questions and respond with two word answers that we have to keep querying in order to understand what you are actually doing or seeing.

I agree with Steve, you need first to be able to install ready made packages successfully and to program simple A-B flights. We will always help you with that, but you really have to take the pain out of exchanging information.

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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by ConcordeBOAF »

I am sorry John and Firebird. I just saw ACG and instantly thought it was Johns. I have very little AI experience but with your help I can gain more knowledge.
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Re: The Twins AI traffic help

Post by Firebird »

That's fine.
We understand that everybody starts somewhere - even us - and I still remember my early stabs at attempting stuff.

What we are mainly about here is helping people learn and improve their skills and knowledge. We understand that it is difficult in the early days to pick stuff up. However, I am sure that you have picked up some useful info from this experience, although i am not still not clear how it is now working from what you posted.

it will come. The key thing is that when you are ask for peoples advice what you are getting is their experience. It is a lot easier to learn when you listen to what they say. As John said the more clear and concise detail you can provide about an issue means that it is easier for others to help you out and thereby increasing your knowledge.

What I said earlier really is a good game plan. If BTW/WDB are absolutely fine now and everything shows up then great but now try and install a second package to prove to yourself that you have got a handle on that and are comfortable with it. Then comes the more tricky part where you install schemes and flightplans, and possibly scenery, that are not provided in a package.
All this is good groundwork.

If you get stuck you can always ask foe advice.
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