The website and forum will be intermittently unavailable while we're making some security updates.
File uploads to the download hangar are also disabled until further notice.

E3A ETNG realistic operations

All things Military AI that don't fit anywhere else.
BurnersGo
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 08:36

E3A ETNG realistic operations

Post by BurnersGo »

Hi

I've been trying to get an E3A to do the following at ETNG :

Monday 06:00 UTC, takeoff to ETNJ. There, I want it to do T&Gos until 07:30, before returning to ETNG.

I have set the Flightplan File to override arrival at ETNJ to 07:00, and to start T&Gos there at 06:45, so that it should seamlessly default into the T&Gos. Doesn't happen, the aircraft lands and taxies to parking.

What do I have to do to make it do practise ciscuits at another airport, and then return to its origin, or possibly another aerodrome for T&Gos ?

Here's my file :

AC#717,0,1%,WEEK,IFR,1/05:58,@1/06:45,230,F,0001,ETNJ,1/06:35,@1/07:30,025,F,0001,ETNJ,1/07:20,@1/08:05,250,F,0001,ETNG

Any help would be appreciated.

Also, after a simulated refuelling mission, can I have a KC135R arrive about 5 minutes before the E3A back at ETNG, and have the E3A do some circuits before it lands, asd in real life, using the same procedure ?

And one final thing. If I want it to seem like the aircraft are flying a mission from and to ETNG, how do I set it up for the two of them to leave in short succession, stay away for +-3 hrs. and return at ETNG within, let's say, 5 or 10 minutes of each other ?!

Thanks

BurnersGo
User avatar
Firebird
MAIW Admin
MAIW Admin
Posts: 12111
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:04
Version: FS9
Location: EGLL

Post by Firebird »

OK well the first thing is that to program TNGs you have to do it another way.
You have it depart at 06:00 for TNGs at ETNJ until 07:30, then the next leg departs ETNJ at 07:33, optimum time here but must be before 5 mins, to land at ETNG.

What you have is a straight transit to ETNJ, to land, followed by a flight from ETNJ to ETNJ (which won't happen as the aircraft was never there to take off) , followed by a transit from ETNJ to ETNG.
To force a T&G leg then you must have 'TNG' immediately before the arrival time, no space, but see the TTools docs for the format.
Also would strongly urge you not to use '@' in flightplans, can cause problems if a flight is late.

On the E3A circuits at home base. Same principle, a TNG leg to home base, followed by a normal home base to home base leg within 5 mins after the TNG leg ends.

You can schedule a pair to go at the same time, one flightplan line for each aircraft and one aircraft line for each aircraft. They will follow each other to the next airfield/waypoint that you schedule, then schedule the KC to arrive back at a specific time, a straight transit leg from whereever, and have the E-3 have a TNG leg ending 5mins later, followed by its base to base leg.

I hope that this makes sense, but don't worry if it doesn't, it didn't to me either in the beginning. Just remember that like a whole flightplan line can be only IFR or VFR not both, a single leg can be only TNG or non-TNG.
Just focus on one part at first to get it working and build your knowledge from there.

Oh and if it takes a while to understand to grasp, don't worry as I am sure that you will soon get the sort of traffic that you are trying to create.
Steve
_______________________________________________________
Image
Quid Si Coelum Ruat
_______________________________________________________
BurnersGo
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 08:36

Post by BurnersGo »

Thanks for the tips, Firebird.

You mean something like this :

AC#717,0,1%,WEEK,VFR,1/05:58,1/TNG07:30,230,F,0001,ETNJ,1/07:27,1/TNG09:00,250,F,0001,ETNG

Correct ?

BurnersGo
User avatar
BadPvtDan
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 3790
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:14
Version: FSX
Location: Round Rock, TX
Contact:

Post by BadPvtDan »

More like:
AC#717,0,1%,WEEK,VFR,1/05:58,1/TNG07:30,230,F,0001,ETNJ,1/07:34,1/TNG09:00,250,F,0001,ETNG

You need to make sure those times are correct, though. TTools will put in the correct flight times and mess up your timings...does that make sense?
"The first rule of Zombieland: Cardio. When the zombie outbreak first hit, the first to go, for obvious reasons... were the fatties."
BurnersGo
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 08:36

Post by BurnersGo »

Oh, yeah, my mistake. My head didn't work right there, sorry .....

But after compilation, it comes out this way :

AC#717,0,1%,WEEK,VFR,1/05:57:43,1/06:49:24,230,F,0001,ETNJ,1/07:32:28,1/08:25:22,250,F,0001,ETNG

Don't mind the weekdays, but the TNGs are all gone, and TTools also re-calculated all the times. That's why I thought I'd use @ in my original version ..... or is this a version issue ?

I'm using TTools 2.02 for FS2002/FS2004. Then I convert the files to FSX using FP_FS9_FSX. This "back-conversion" is from the original TTools FS9 build .....

Strange .....
User avatar
Firebird
MAIW Admin
MAIW Admin
Posts: 12111
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:04
Version: FS9
Location: EGLL

Post by Firebird »

Ah, not quite, the day of the week is part of the time so its ,TNG1/07:30, not ,1/TNG07:30,.

Also its better if you don't end on a TNG leg, a learned man once told me that it can be unpredictable, so if you want TNGs back at ETNG then add another leg ETNG-ETNG at the end using the same TNG time interval, less than 5 minutes.

Don't worry about the ttools version, everybody uses the same version.
Steve
_______________________________________________________
Image
Quid Si Coelum Ruat
_______________________________________________________
BurnersGo
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 08:36

Post by BurnersGo »

Ah, got it. Will post when I have the first restults !

Thanks for all your help, guys.
User avatar
BadPvtDan
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 3790
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:14
Version: FSX
Location: Round Rock, TX
Contact:

Post by BadPvtDan »

BurnersGo wrote:... and TTools also re-calculated all the times. That's why I thought I'd use @ in my original version .....
This is what I meant by the times being accurate. What I do is create my flightplans...compile in TTools...then DECOMPILE them...this gives me accurate arrival times so I can go back and adjust the return leg. Keep in mind you only want to decompile once, though.
"The first rule of Zombieland: Cardio. When the zombie outbreak first hit, the first to go, for obvious reasons... were the fatties."
User avatar
Garysb
MAIW Developer
MAIW Developer
Posts: 2807
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 19:33
Version: FSX
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire, UK

Post by Garysb »

Just remember that with VFR plans the aircraft will land and roll down the runway then take off. With IFR you will get a missed approach which is probably more realistic with the E-3's


Gary
I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
User avatar
Greg
MAIW Admin
MAIW Admin
Posts: 4043
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 19:56
Version: MSFS
Location: Belgium

Post by Greg »

Garysb wrote:Just remember that with VFR plans the aircraft will land and roll down the runway then take off. With IFR you will get a missed approach which is probably more realistic with the E-3's
Hmm not really. I've controlled quite a few NATO E-3's during circuit training at EBBE Beauvechain, and when flying VFR patterns they do touch. Always an impressive sight when they turn to final and barely make the runway.

Greg
User avatar
Garysb
MAIW Developer
MAIW Developer
Posts: 2807
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 19:33
Version: FSX
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire, UK

Post by Garysb »

Tirithon wrote:
Garysb wrote:Just remember that with VFR plans the aircraft will land and roll down the runway then take off. With IFR you will get a missed approach which is probably more realistic with the E-3's
Hmm not really. I've controlled quite a few NATO E-3's during circuit training at EBBE Beauvechain, and when flying VFR patterns they do touch. Always an impressive sight when they turn to final and barely make the runway.

Greg
Greg

What Im trying to say is that the AI engine has them travel down the runway for quite a distance before they take off again which may not look right in FS

Gary
I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
FlyEF
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 42
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 19:44

Post by FlyEF »

BadPvtDan wrote:...then DECOMPILE them...
Danny,
you don't have to decompile, because TTools changes the flightplan.txt and save it.
You only have to reopen the flightplan.txt, make correction, save, close and compile.

Regards

Horst
User avatar
BadPvtDan
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 3790
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:14
Version: FSX
Location: Round Rock, TX
Contact:

Post by BadPvtDan »

Woohoo thanks :)
5 years on and still learning.
"The first rule of Zombieland: Cardio. When the zombie outbreak first hit, the first to go, for obvious reasons... were the fatties."
User avatar
Greg
MAIW Admin
MAIW Admin
Posts: 4043
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 19:56
Version: MSFS
Location: Belgium

Post by Greg »

Garysb wrote:What Im trying to say is that the AI engine has them travel down the runway for quite a distance before they take off again which may not look right in FS
I haven't got any experience with RAF Sentries, but the NATO ones do exactly that, at least during VFR circuit training. They land, slow down, give full throttle again and barely get airborne before the end of the runway.

You're right concerning IFR though: they mostly end in a missed approach at the DA.

Again, that's my experience with controlling NATO E-3's. Both options (VFR & IFR) would look realistic in the sim to me.

Greg
User avatar
Garysb
MAIW Developer
MAIW Developer
Posts: 2807
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 19:33
Version: FSX
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire, UK

Post by Garysb »

Greg
I bow to you superior knowledge :D
Gary
I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
BurnersGo
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 08:36

Post by BurnersGo »

OK, second try.

Call it ETNG Beta V0.9b.

It comprises the following flights :

Daily NATO01 departs 06:00 ETNG for T/Gos at ETNJ, ETMN, ETNL and ETNN and then returns. I have inserted landings between the individual T/Go segments, hope this works for you. A full day of practise approaches .....

Monday - Friday ESSO75 departs between 06:10 - 06:45 for a AAR mission in a ficticious anchor I named XKIM. Position is about NDO. It is followed by NATO40. Both return before noon. Looks kinda cool because both are verctored quite close together, so if you come across them it does seem like they are flying a refuelling mission .....

Monday NATO02 departs ETNG at 06:15 for LGPZ. It leaves there Tuesday at 07:00 for LICT. Wednesday it continues to LTAN at 06:30. Thursday it goes to ENOL at 06:45, to return to ETNG on Friday morning at 06:15, landing at 09:20. This is to simulate deployment to FOBs .....

Monday NATO03 departs ETNG for EGXW at 07:00. It departs there on Wednesday 07:45 for LFOA. There it leaves on Friday at 07:45 for ETNG. Visits to the British, as well as French E3A component home-bases .....

NATO04 departs KMXF on Sunday, to arrive at ETNG at 10:49 on Monday. Tuesday at 07:15 he goes to EGXW. Wednesday at 08:00 it goes to ENOL. Thursday at 06:30 he goes to LFOA, to depart again for ETNG on Friday at 06:45, where after a brief stop it continues to KMXF at 10:15. To simulate the exchange of an aircraft from / to the US .....

Monday - Friday ESSO76 departs between 12:30 - 13:15 for a AAR mission in a ficticious anchor I named XGIN. Position is about Trier, on the German / French border. It is followed by NATO41. Both return before 18:00, except Fridays, when they depart at 10:00, to return before noon. NATO41 continues with T/Gos at ETNG for another 30 minutes. Looks like I mentioned above, kinda nifty. Finishes with some circuits for the E3A, as is quite common in real life .....

ESSO77, departing Sunday at 10:15 in PHNL, to arrive at ETNG on Monday at 10:07. It remains parked there until Wednesday at 07:45, when it departs for EGVN, leaving there again Thursday at 09:00 for ETNG. Finally, on Friday, it goes back to PHNL at 09:30. Just to fill up the apron, because there are always 3 tankers deployed to ETNG .....

Added another daily T&Go operation, NATO42, circuits at ETNG for 90 minutes.

This is of course totally ficticious, but as accurate as I could be, based on own observation and FOBs that the ETNG-based aircraft use.

I am also working on some Flightplans for RNLAF KC10, to operate out of EHEH, I may just have them visit ETNG once in a while .....

You'll need the PAI NATO E3A, as well as MAIW_PAI_KC135R_RCH_XX_106_57-1432 for these files to work .....

Also, this will of course mess up your MAIW package, but if you want to have ATC use ESSO voice callsign for the tankers, you have to manually change it in the KC135's aircraft.CFG file. If you are using FSX, as I am, and can't get voicepacks to work, like me, just use ESSO, it's in the FSX airlines.CFG file by default ..... So is NATO, that happened automatically with the PAI NATO E3A though .....
Attachments
Flightplans_etng_test_FS9_FSX.txt
Updated FSX FPLs
(2.43 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
Airports_etng_test_FS9_FSX.txt
Updated FSX APTs
(594 Bytes) Downloaded 18 times
Last edited by BurnersGo on 24 Feb 2009, 20:20, edited 2 times in total.
BurnersGo
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 08:36

Post by BurnersGo »

The Aircraft file for FSX.
Attachments
Aircraft_etng_test_FS9.txt
FSX ACFT File
(75 Bytes) Downloaded 15 times
Last edited by BurnersGo on 24 Feb 2009, 20:21, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Garysb
MAIW Developer
MAIW Developer
Posts: 2807
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 19:33
Version: FSX
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire, UK

Post by Garysb »

Burners

It is not advisable to have more than one set of TNGs in a leg.

ie

Take off TNG land, take off TNG Land
(TNG or land may not need to be home base but you must complete the circle for the week lat landing must be at your first take off point)

not Take off TNG fly to TNG fly to TNG .........


You will get problems


Gary
I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
BurnersGo
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 08:36

Post by BurnersGo »

Hi Garysb

Thanks for the info, so far, the times I checked at the relevant bases, NATO01 was doing perfect circuits without any problems .....

I figured it would work the same way if you make a sequence of T&Gos.

Of course, you were right. NATO01 landed at ETMN instead of doing T&Gos.

:oops:

I'll have to redo the schedule for him to incorporate a landing at every base before taxiing out again to do another set of patterns somewhere else .....

Oh, and I couldn't use the DIXIE callsign in FSX, since EditVoicePack doesn't work for FSX yet, so I amended ATC_CALLSIGN for my KC-135 to read ESSO ( found it in the airlines.CFG ). Now the voice callsign works, too .....

Wooooohoooooo ! :lol:
User avatar
Garysb
MAIW Developer
MAIW Developer
Posts: 2807
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 19:33
Version: FSX
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire, UK

Post by Garysb »

Dont forget Burners you need a gap of at least 30mins between landing and the next take off


Gary
I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
Post Reply