Sinking Aircraft

[Grape]

Problems, problems!

I did some editing of an AFCAD (not one of MAIW's) for FSX using ADE9x, adding parking spaces and apron taxi paths. I made some preliminary flight plans for testing. As soon as the sim opens the ai aircraft sink like a ship going down and disappear. This airport has 2 diiferent parking areas and ai aircraft are fine in the other one. I am assuming I did something wrong to the area I edited. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

[Firebird]

Well, reading the post. I assume that you are editing it to add aircraft to it. The fact that you had to add aircraft to test seems to indicate that no AI uses it yet. Now I have seen that behaviour before and its not afcad related but aircraft related.
I guess my first question would be is it an AI model that disappears through the floor or a non-AI model that you are trying to make into AI?

If it is a non-AI model, I would look at that first. You could always check the afcad by testing with 100% workable AI aircraft that you have on your system. If they disappear then I would say its fair to say that there is an afcad issue. I would also make the parking spaces big enough to take whatever AI aircraft you are testing with.

Now if you are testing with working AI aircraft, then the only thing that springs to mind afcad related is that the height of the afcad is below the level of the airfield and they sink to the that level but I don't think that would be possible to do in FS9, unless you actually have two afcads, but if FSX allows differing heights I suppose it could be the case.

I guess that there is just not enough info to be any more specific at this time.

[Grape]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your input.

The fact that you had to add aircraft to test seems to indicate that no AI uses it yet.

There are other ai aircraft from MAIW packages that show up, but in a different area of the airfield, without sinking.

I would also make the parking spaces big enough to take whatever AI aircraft you are testing with.

Parking spaces are the same size as used on other AFCADS for this type of aircraft.

then the only thing that springs to mind afcad related is that the height of the afcad is below the level of the airfield

I checked the height of the stock AFCAD for this airfield and made the height of the edited one the same after I noticed the problem and the ai aircraft still sink like a ship. I even deleted the stock AFCAD and the same thing happens.

Probably something simple as usual. Having a ball learning all this AI stuff.

[kungfuman]

It's not possible to delete the stock afcad unless you edit one of the AP******.bgl files in your Flight Simulator 9\Scenery folder. (Sorry, that's the FS9 location. I don't know about FSX)

I think that it might be easier to work out what's going on if you gave more specific info: Which airfield, which model, which parking area, which type of parking spot etc.

[Grape]

The AFCAD I deleted (I saved it in another location - see I learn something when I screw things up) was in Scenery/0302, file name APX26230.

I think that it might be easier to work out what's going on if you gave more specific info:

Which airfield - NAS Key West KNQX for FSX by Jim Cook

Which model - Nick Black's F/A-18 Legacy Hornet

Which parking area - Northwest Ramp (see image)

Which type of parking spot - Ramp_Mil_Combat - 31ft radius - have codes for V106, F18

You can see the sinking aircraft in the first image. I was able to hit "PrtScn" before they totally disappeared.

I should have been a Magician since I'm having all kinds of success making things disappear!





Thanks for your help kungfuman.

[Joecoastie]

I was stationed down at NAS Boca Chica (Key West) '65 - '70 and that part of the ramp was VF-101's area.
Their F-4's were always sinking down thru' the ramp and disappearing. I'm not sure you can fix it
with an AFCAD. Sumpin' about the coral base I think . . . .

Joe - VX-1 - Helo & P-3's rule!

[Firebird]

OK taking into account that I don't have FSX, and therefore I have to make assumptions that its the same as FS9.
Can you confirm that you didn't modify the apron area, just added the parking there? and taxiways.

I can take a look at the afcad and see if I can see something wrong but being FS9 it won't have certain functions like sloping airfields etc. So I may not see the problem plus the FSX version of ADE9X will have different options. It might be better if one of the FSX users helps you out there.

[Grape]

Steve, I did add a small strip of apron to the right edge of that area (right - meaning as your looking at the image posted above).

[Firebird]

So would I be right in thinking that the aircraft are sinking on the original section?

In truth now, as I don't have X I can't really go any further put I would be tempted to say try adding the spots and taxiways using afcad and see if the same thing happens, obviously using a copy of the original afcad.

I would be tempted to say that if they sink still then it's a flaw with the scenery, i.e. the hard deck is at sea level rather than the height of the afcad. If they don't sink then I would say that it is an ADE9X problem that possibly can be found in the manual or you may have to take it to that support forum.

[Grape]

Steve, I just made some temporary flightplans to try adding some more Hornets to that area and they show up and do not sink. Is it possible that it may have something to do with the sinking aircrafts .air file?

I'll try some more experimentation when I have time.

Again, thanks for taking the time to help me out.

[Firebird]

Yes indeed it could. that is exactly where I was going with my original post about using AI and non-AI aircraft. Non-AI aircraft have this problem occasionally as they are out of balance, for the AI engine. It could equally apply to an AI aircraft that has had its fde changed.
This could either be the .air file or one or more parms in the aircraft.cfg . I should stress here that adding or altering fltsim.x entries does not count.

I must admit that it didn't immediately occur to me that you would alter one that worked. Is this what you have done?

[Grape]

I did not intentionally alter either the .air file or the aircraft.cfg file. I think I may have tried to open an .air file by double clicking on it (I know, stupid thing to do) and I believe it said it was corrupt and to get a new one from .....? Not sure if it was the one from the folder of the sinking aircraft but could be. I'll compare the aircraft.config with another one to see if something got changed (is there a program that will do this?).

Just curious. How do you open an .air file and is it advisable to do so just to take a look?

Really appreciate your help.

[FlyEF]

It has nothing to do with the .air or .cfg file, because the aircraft is correct on the other part of the airport. Is the sinking part the apron you have added? It seems that there is no flatten or the altitude is incorrect or something like this.
One problem is: Jim Cook has used AFX. AFX uses not the microsoft compiler to make bgls. If you open AFX-bgl with ADEX9 it could be you lost some information.
Try to make your own airport starting from the stock. Add parking spots and look if aircraft sinks.

Another problem: Don't change any APX......bgl. APX-bgl-files represent most time more than one airport. There is no program to decompile and compile APX (and AP9) files correctly. If you change AP-files you may destroy many airports.

Regards

[Firebird]

I did not intentionally alter either the .air file or the aircraft.cfg file. I think I may have tried to open an .air file by double clicking on it (I know, stupid thing to do) and I believe it said it was corrupt and to get a new one from .....? Not sure if it was the one from the folder of the sinking aircraft but could be. I'll compare the aircraft.config with another one to see if something got changed (is there a program that will do this?).

Just curious. How do you open an .air file and is it advisable to do so just to take a look?

Really appreciate your help.

It sounds like FlyEF may know more about the actual cause of the problem.

The .air files can be opened if you have installed a proggy called AirEd on your PC. It should associate the filetype with the program and will display all the parms inside it.

I would say though that whilst its a useful tool for poking around with it can cause serious problem, particularly for your AI, if you don't know what you are doing. Just make sure that you don't make and save any changes. If you want to mess around do it with a copy.
If you suspect that you may have corrupted one the simplest way is just to download the model again and replace the .air file.

[Grape]

Thank you for your suggestions FlyEF. I was thinking about modifying the stock airport and may eventually do so but I'd like to know what is causing the problem and how to fix it. In my old age I've discovered learning to be FUN. Wish I felt that way in my youth.

Steve, thanks for you help also. I'll report back if anything new arises.

[FlyEF]

Grape, please go to KNQX with an user aircraft i.e. Cessna or so and look for sinking. I have tested the file developed by Jim Cook. The user aircraft don't sink.

Regards

Horst

[Grape]

Problem is fixed! The information in the aircraft.cfg file below the [fltsim.x] entries was all wrong. I don't know if I copied that info from another aircraft or didn't copy all of it from the one for Nick's Hornet.

A BIG thanks to all who took the time to help me out. You guys rock!

Grape