The website and forum will be intermittently unavailable while we're making some security updates.
File uploads to the download hangar are also disabled until further notice.

AI touchdown point

Discussion, tutorials,hints and tips relating to designing military ai aircraft.
Post Reply
mikewmac
MAIW Veteran
MAIW Veteran
Posts: 1787
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 10:06
Version: P3D
Location: KBTV - Vermont

Re: AI touchdown point

Post by mikewmac »

Biggles7 wrote:Some AI aircraft tend to land nearly halfway down the runway, even during TNGs. And if the rwy is around 5.000ft or so, the AI tends to roll well beyond the rwy threshold before turning back to park, or accelerating for another take-off during TNGs.

Is there some tweak to the afcad or aircraft that will correct this flaw and result in the AI plane touching down at or near the rwy threshold ?? Instead of a good way down the rwy ?

I have observed countless AI models over the years during landing. Some land well beyond the threshold, even halfway down the rwy, whilst other AI are spot on and land in close proximity to the threshold.

Since I'm no expert at aircraft FDEs, I have no idea whether there's a parameter to control the AI touchdown point on any runway.
Biggles7,

Which AI aircraft are you talking about that land too far down the runway? I did the AI FDE's for most of the new AI aircraft originating out of MAIW and I don't believe any of them have that problem or at least they didn't for me during my testing. My AI FDE's are designed to have the MAIW AI aircraft land on or in close proximity to the large Runway Aiming Point Markings, two parallel 150 by 30 foot white bars, which typically start 1020+/-200 feet down the runway from the threshold.

There is no one AI FDE parameter that controls the AI touchdown point on the runway. The problem you describe can probably be corrected, but without reviewing the AI FDE for the particular problem AI aircraft I can't really give you a fix. Unfortunately AI FDE creation and/or repair is more of an art than a science where one must balance out the effects of a number of different parameters and many times it is actually easier to create a whole new AI FDE than it is to correct someone else's mistakes.

Mike M.
    Mike M.
    mikewmac
    MAIW Veteran
    MAIW Veteran
    Posts: 1787
    Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 10:06
    Version: P3D
    Location: KBTV - Vermont

    Re: AI touchdown point

    Post by mikewmac »

    Biggles7 wrote:
    mikewmac wrote:
    Biggles7,

    Which AI aircraft are you talking about that land too far down the runway? I did the AI FDE's for most of the new AI aircraft originating out of MAIW and I don't believe any of them have that problem or at least they didn't for me during my testing. My AI FDE's are designed to have the MAIW AI aircraft land on or in close proximity to the large Runway Aiming Point Markings, two parallel 150 by 30 foot white bars, which typically start 1020+/-200 feet down the runway from the threshold.

    There is no one AI FDE parameter that controls the AI touchdown point on the runway. The problem you describe can probably be corrected, but without reviewing the AI FDE for the particular problem AI aircraft I can't really give you a fix. Unfortunately AI FDE creation and/or repair is more of an art than a science where one must balance out the effects of a number of different parameters and many times it is actually easier to create a whole new AI FDE than it is to correct someone else's mistakes.

    Mike M.
    Mike, thanks for taking an interest and pointing out that FDEs are more of an Art than a Science.
    If you want specifics, I can give them right away...however, today or tomorrow I will post a screenshot or two - here in this thread - so that you can check this out visually....if you wish.

    After installing Whidbey Island Growlers I also proceeded to install John Strinstrom's Coupeville scenery.
    I discovered there was neither an afcad nor any parking-spots.
    So I created a simple afcad and some eight parking spots for military AI.
    Using TTools, I also designed a basic traffic file to bring Coupeville to life. The simplest and most effective method is thru TNGs. I programmed seven F-16s to be stationed there permanently...performing TNGs at regular intervals. Day and Night.
    It might not be realistic. However, it suits my purpose to have Coupeville come alive. And since the AI traffic is local, it just brings this airfield to life. For my own personal amusement. Since I believe that FS9 is also for fun, and one does not have to stick to realism all the time.
    Anyway, the Seven F-16s are the Thunderbird Team from the Nellis AFB package. Does that help pinpoint the model, Mike?
    Just in case you might wish to see for yourself, I will post the afcad I created, along with the traffic file. Then, instead of mere screenshots, you should be able to re-create the exact scenario on your setup.....if you wish, naturally.

    Look, I don't expect perfection in FS9, and one has to learn to live with its limitations, sometimes.
    However, it's only natural for me to wish that those F-16s (and other freeware AI...not from MAIW packages) could land near the threshold.
    In the case of Coupeville, they land on two wheels some third way from the threshold......stay nose up till more than half the runway is gone.....then keep on rolling till they start accelerating about two-thirds down the rwy, by which time they take off they have been rolling way beyond the threshold....a couple of hundred metres actually, before they take off.

    The one thing I wish I could alter was the long duration of the roll some AI make after landing....before they start accelerating again for take-off during TNGs..... If that "long" roll could be shortened...it would solve the problem, Mike. In the case of those Thunderbird F-16s, they do land in the first third of the runway...but the nose stays up for practically another third...!!!...and by the time the plane starts accelerating again, it's practically on the FCLP markings at the opposite end of the rwy at Coupeville.

    I hope that provides you with sufficient detail, Mike.
    And whether you wish to take time to investigate further or not...is up to you. However, I will be placing the afcad and traffic file for you here, or I can PM them to you directly.

    You already helped me greatly with your advice about altering the pattern altitude for certain airports!!
    Whatever happens, thanks for your thoughtfulness and advice, Mike.
    I am always indebted to You and all at MAIW...including MikeJG.
    Biggles7,

    The AI F-16C that you are using is the HTAI F-16C by Henry Tomkiewicz who created both the AI model and FDE several years ago and which despite its age is still the best AI F-16C available for use in FS9. The HTAI F-16C's nose high and total landing rolls duplicate the way that the real F-16C's land and Henry worked hard to accomplish this since he wanted his HTAI F-16C's to portray the performance of the real life F-16C's as close as possible. I think that the 5400 foot runway at Coupeville is too short for use by real F-16C's and since the HTAI F-16C's portray the real life F-16C's relatively well, Coupeville's runway is too short for the HTAI F-16 and especially for it performing VFR TNG's.

    My old squadron, the 134th FS, 158th FW, VTANG, now fly F-16C's from Burlington IAP's (KBTV) 8300 foot runway and my VT ANG HTAI F-16C's fly very realistic takeoffs and landings at my FS9 KBTV. They will also fly nice VFR TNG's, but I do not flight plan them to do so since the VT ANG does not fly VFR TNG's. They only fly IFR missed low approaches instead.

    My suggestion is that you do one of two things. Either find a nearby airport with an FS9 8000 foot runway or longer to use or flight plan your HTAI F-16C's to fly IFR TNG's at Coupeville instead of VFR TNG's.

    Mike M.
      Mike M.
      Post Reply