The website and forum will be intermittently unavailable while we're making some security updates.
File uploads to the download hangar are also disabled until further notice.

MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

Discussion, tutorials,hints and tips relating to designing military ai aircraft.
mikewmac
MAIW Veteran
MAIW Veteran
Posts: 1787
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 10:06
Version: P3D
Location: KBTV - Vermont

MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

Post by mikewmac »

Below is a link to an interesting post I read in the FSDeveloper Forums. Does anyone have any other information on this AI V22 Osprey?

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showth ... p?t=425387
    Mike M.
    User avatar
    petebramley
    MAIW Developer
    MAIW Developer
    Posts: 1529
    Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 16:05
    Version: P3D
    Location: EGBG

    Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

    Post by petebramley »

    Now that would be a well received addition to the community !


    Fingers crossed
    Pete B
    Retired and busier than ever !!
    User avatar
    Victory103
    Colonel
    Colonel
    Posts: 3977
    Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 03:35
    Version: P3D
    Location: KPHX

    Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

    Post by Victory103 »

    And toes now too, the pilot models look familiar.
    DUSTOFF
    ARMY PROPS
    NAVY SAR

    -Chris
    User avatar
    clickclickdoh
    MAIW Developer
    MAIW Developer
    Posts: 1568
    Joined: 03 Mar 2009, 03:04

    Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

    Post by clickclickdoh »

    I wonder if that's just a modification of the AH-64/CH-47 takeoff animation, but instead of rising two or three feet off the ground it goes up twenty... the converts to engine forward and goes racing down the runway.
    User avatar
    Firebird
    MAIW Admin
    MAIW Admin
    Posts: 12113
    Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:04
    Version: FS9
    Location: EGLL

    Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

    Post by Firebird »

    I was wondering that myself. I was even thinking that maybe they have animated the engine rotation according to forward speed, but the tricky part would be the landing. To do it smoothly you would need to have very good flap control.

    It will be interesting to see how it works out.
    Steve
    _______________________________________________________
    Image
    Quid Si Coelum Ruat
    _______________________________________________________
    User avatar
    Weescotty
    MAIW Developer
    MAIW Developer
    Posts: 2770
    Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 22:15
    Version: FS9
    Location: Sydney

    Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

    Post by Weescotty »

    Not my V-22, but have definitely experimented with the whole issue.

    Tieing the rotation to forward speed isn't a problem, ask 'magic' Mike.
    It's also one of the variables I will use for Marks F-35B rotating nozzle I am helping him with.

    Landing isn't the problem, it's shutdown.

    I am fairly sure that when the aircraft goes inactive all variables go to 0.
    So although the code works great for active / taxi / takeoff, it's quite ugly for the reverse.

    Eg.
    Model hover taxis back to its spot.
    As soon as it goes dark all the flags / covers re-appear, then it settles back down to the ground.

    I have thought of a way around that, but the coding definitely works better if it taxis out and in on the ground.

    Same also applies to ALL skidded Helis which HAVE to hover taxi in/out.

    Been trying to figure out a way of getting the rotors to stop in the same location on shutdown also, no joy with that yet either.

    Is there ANY way of finding out which variables (if any) continue to send data after the aircraft goes inactive, eg is prop rpm still active until it stops?
    Or engine rpm, or oil pressure etc etc.
    mikewmac
    MAIW Veteran
    MAIW Veteran
    Posts: 1787
    Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 10:06
    Version: P3D
    Location: KBTV - Vermont

    Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

    Post by mikewmac »

    Kevin,

    After all the work we did back in the spring of 2007 I thought we were able to get your "proof of concept" KRAI MV-22 Osprey to have decent STOL takeoffs and landings. I just dusted it off and had it fly around the KBTV VFR pattern to refresh my memory as to exactly what we had accomplished back then and what AI FDE improvements I had added to it since and it behaved pretty much as I remembered and expected. :)

    Here is what I observed:

    1. When parked its engines were vertical, the port engine had various red covers and warning flags located on it. Fifteen minutes prior to engine start when the nav lights came on the red covers and flags disappeared.

    2. After engine start when it started to taxi the engines tilted forward ~5 degrees from the vertical and remained there as long as it was taxiing. Whenever it stopped on the parking ramp, taxiway or runway the engines returned to their vertical position, but tilted back forward ~5 degrees when it started to taxi again.

    3. On its takeoff roll when your Osprey passed ~30 KIAS the engines' tilted further forward to ~15 degrees and it lifted off at ~69 KIAS with a short takeoff roll of ~390 feet.

    4. During its climb out the engines tilted further forward to ~45 degrees as it passed 75 KIAS and to ~90 degrees or horizontal at ~170 KIAS.

    5. As it entered the VFR pattern and slowed down past ~170 KIAS the engines tilted back up to ~45 degrees and remained there on the ~80 KIAS downwind leg.

    6. Your Osprey remained at ~80 KIAS with an ~45 degree engine position on its base leg and as it turned to final it slowed below ~75 KIAS and the engines tilted further up to ~15 degrees.

    7. It flew a nice stable final leg at ~44 KIAS and an engine position of ~15 degrees forward of the vertical.

    8. It slowed to ~31 KIAS as it touched down and then immediately stopped, before taxiing in at ~20 KIAS with the engines ~5 degrees forward of their vertical position.

    9. It parked nicely and the engines shutdown in their vertical position.

    10. Fifteen minutes after engine shutdown the nav lights went out and the red covers and warning flags reappeared on the port engine.

    In short, it performed pretty well as a STOL AI model. :D

    Personally I don't think hover taxiing should be an issue with airport based KRAI MV-22 Ospreys. The videos I've seen all show them taxiing out normally and onto the active runway before using either their STOL or VTOL capability to depart and then after either a STOL or VTOL landing on the active runway, taxiing back in normally.
      Mike M.
      User avatar
      Victory103
      Colonel
      Colonel
      Posts: 3977
      Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 03:35
      Version: P3D
      Location: KPHX

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by Victory103 »

      Agree with Mike, just had 2 down here in TX training and got to see them fly by but in helo mode, surprisingly they never converted to 45 or airplane.
      DUSTOFF
      ARMY PROPS
      NAVY SAR

      -Chris
      User avatar
      Weescotty
      MAIW Developer
      MAIW Developer
      Posts: 2770
      Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 22:15
      Version: FS9
      Location: Sydney

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by Weescotty »

      Taxiing out and back on the ground isn't a problem for wheel based VTOL stuff.
      You can tie the hover anim to the strobe light, with a delay so its lined up when it does go into the hover

      I forgot that AI a/c leave their nav lights on after shutdown, so that solves one issue in that a taxi hover out and back from the runway can be tied to the beacon light.
      However that also depends on how quickly the rotor spins down.
      The trigger has to be low enough to get it into the hover before it starts taxiing, but high enough to stop weird stuff happening during final.
      I.e. when the 'rotors' slow down because they aren't constant speed.

      Another problem is if you look at the wheels when they are in the hover and moving forward, they still turn.
      There is a sort of fix for that which is to hide the wheels when it goes into a hover and replace them with dummy ones that only show at that time. Still not perfect as you can see them change if they dont 'line up' with each other, as they will appear to move when the dummy wheels appear/dissapear.

      The bigger issue is skidded helis!
      Anything that works similar to the above solution makes it only suitable for drive thru parking, you can get away with a wheel based one getting pushed back.
      User avatar
      gsnde
      MAIW Admin
      MAIW Admin
      Posts: 4380
      Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 08:13
      Version: P3D
      Location: South-West Germany
      Contact:

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by gsnde »

      The model shown over at FSDeveloper is from James, the author of the posting. I have pointed him to this thread and asked him to say hello and share his experiences if he feels like it.
      Cheers,
      Martin
      ________________________________________
      The Owl's Nest * Military Aircraft Reference * ICAO Reference * Distance Calculator * MAIW, Military AI & UKMil Reference
      User avatar
      Firebird
      MAIW Admin
      MAIW Admin
      Posts: 12113
      Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:04
      Version: FS9
      Location: EGLL

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by Firebird »

      Weescotty wrote:The trigger has to be low enough to get it into the hover before it starts taxiing, but high enough to stop weird stuff happening during final. I.e. when the 'rotors' slow down because they aren't constant speed.
      I am not quite sure what you mean here. Are you talking about the speed that the blades turn at, i.e. visually? If so there is a simple fix for that. I worked it out when dealing with older prop models that have tick over anims at low power settings. It does mean juggling a couple of other parms but Mike can do that.
      Steve
      _______________________________________________________
      Image
      Quid Si Coelum Ruat
      _______________________________________________________
      User avatar
      Weescotty
      MAIW Developer
      MAIW Developer
      Posts: 2770
      Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 22:15
      Version: FS9
      Location: Sydney

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by Weescotty »

      That's exactly what I am talking about.
      I thought the rpm levels for the 3 states were fixed in FS4?
      I know visually you can replace the middle one with a copy of the fast blurred disc, but that wouldn't fix the underlying issue.
      User avatar
      Firebird
      MAIW Admin
      MAIW Admin
      Posts: 12113
      Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 21:04
      Version: FS9
      Location: EGLL

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by Firebird »

      OK then we may be able to overcome that. I did with Dave Friswell's PC-9, I think.
      What I found is that if you set the min_throttle_limit, under GeneralEngineData, to at least 0.08 so 8% throttle then the props/rotors stay a blur rather than the unsettling look of an engine failure. Double check the limit but I don't remember having to go as high as 0.1 .

      It would not affect taxying as aircraft use 10% anyway, but you have to make sure that the brakes can stop quickly enough with power still being applied and obvious hold easily with up to 10% power applied.
      The other main thing it will affect is the aircraft deceleration whilst in the air, although it may actually counteract an aggressive deceleration fde. If not you need to dirty the plane up to offset this but all this will be child's play for Mike.

      I would say give it a try to see if it helps that particular problem.
      Steve
      _______________________________________________________
      Image
      Quid Si Coelum Ruat
      _______________________________________________________
      User avatar
      Joecoastie
      Lieutenant Colonel
      Lieutenant Colonel
      Posts: 860
      Joined: 30 Jan 2007, 17:46
      Version: P3D
      Location: 8.2mi/077 radial of GVE

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by Joecoastie »

      Keep working on it, boys! I sure would love to have some Ospreys in my sim! :)
      Service to my Country 9/61 - 2/03
      US Navy - HS-3, VX-1, HS-7 (USS Intrepid, USS Wasp, USS Yorktown)
      Va National Guard - 229th Cbt Avn Co
      US Coast Guard - E City CGAS, CGC Morro Bay, RTC Yorktown
      NOAA - Co-op Observer 1983 - present
      mikewmac
      MAIW Veteran
      MAIW Veteran
      Posts: 1787
      Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 10:06
      Version: P3D
      Location: KBTV - Vermont

      Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

      Post by mikewmac »

      Goys,

      It appears that James is going to release his AI V-22 Osprey as Payware.

      http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showth ... p?t=425363
        Mike M.
        User avatar
        Weescotty
        MAIW Developer
        MAIW Developer
        Posts: 2770
        Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 22:15
        Version: FS9
        Location: Sydney

        Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

        Post by Weescotty »

        Mike if you would like to post a few pics of mine go ahead.
        It maybe getting about time to have a fresh look at it.
        I have learnt a lot since 2007, and I am sure I can add some tweaks to it. There were a couple of part I wasn't 100% happy with, but I now have the skills to improve them.
        I also lost the FDE for it!
        User avatar
        campbeme
        MAIW Staff
        MAIW Staff
        Posts: 3293
        Joined: 24 Jun 2007, 11:58
        Version: FSX

        Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

        Post by campbeme »

        Weescotty wrote:Mike if you would like to post a few pics of mine go ahead.
        It maybe getting about time to have a fresh look at it.
        I have learnt a lot since 2007, and I am sure I can add some tweaks to it. There were a couple of part I wasn't 100% happy with, but I now have the skills to improve them.
        I also lost the FDE for it!

        Hey Kev, as this thread is moving towards your Osprey version, can you start the discussion up in the Skunk Works please? :D
        Mark
        mikewmac
        MAIW Veteran
        MAIW Veteran
        Posts: 1787
        Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 10:06
        Version: P3D
        Location: KBTV - Vermont

        Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

        Post by mikewmac »

        Weescotty wrote:Mike if you would like to post a few pics of mine go ahead.
        It maybe getting about time to have a fresh look at it.
        I have learnt a lot since 2007, and I am sure I can add some tweaks to it. There were a couple of part I wasn't 100% happy with, but I now have the skills to improve them.
        I also lost the FDE for it!
        Kev,

        I'll take some screenshots of your KRAI MV-22 Osprey in action and post them as soon as I get a chance. :wink:

        I've learned a lot about AI FDE's since 2007 and have applied some of that to the KRAI MV-22 Osprey FDE already, but I can probably do even more if you resurrect the model. :D

        I can also PM you a copy of my current KRAI MV-22 Osprey FDE if you need it. :wink:
          Mike M.
          mikewmac
          MAIW Veteran
          MAIW Veteran
          Posts: 1787
          Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 10:06
          Version: P3D
          Location: KBTV - Vermont

          Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

          Post by mikewmac »

          Guys,

          Below are some current screenshots at KBTV of Kevin's 2007 "proof of concept" KRAI MV-22 Osprey for FS9. :shock: 8)

          It is from early in Kev's AI model development process and as such it does not have all the usual "bells and whistles" built into it yet, but it did and still does show great promise for becoming an outstanding and very unique AI aircraft model. :wink: :D

          Enjoy!

          Parked on the VT ARNG Ramp
          Image

          Taxiing Out on the VT ARNG Ramp
          Image

          Taxiing to Runway 15 with Another KRAI MV-22 Osprey Demonstrating its STOL Capability in the BackGround
          Image

          Cleared for Takeoff on Runway 15
          Image

          Lifting Off Runway 15 in Less than 400'
          Image

          Climbing Out with Engines Tilted Forward 45 Degrees
          Image

          Leveled Off with Engines Tilted Fully Forward
          Image

          On the Downwind Leg of a Right Hand VFR Pattern
          Image

          Preparing for the Turn to the Base Leg
          Image

          Descending on Final to Land on Runway 15
          Image

          About to Touch Down on Runway 15
          Image

          Landed on Runway 15
          Image

          Taxiing Down Runway 15 to Taxiway H
          Image

          Taxiing In After Turning onto Taxiway H
          Image
            Mike M.
            User avatar
            campbeme
            MAIW Staff
            MAIW Staff
            Posts: 3293
            Joined: 24 Jun 2007, 11:58
            Version: FSX

            Re: MSFS AI V22 Osprey Vertical Takeoff FSX/FS9

            Post by campbeme »

            There's a big smile on my face, that really does look very good.
            Mark
            Post Reply