TACPACK Scenario AI Compatability

[Hangar200]

Greetings,

I am new to this forum but have been doing various types of FSX add-on development for the last decade. I actually got into flightsimming in the mid 1980's…before there was an MSFS.

Recently I purchased the TACPACK add-on and purchased a few TACPACK enabled fighters. It is very exciting…as long as you have something to shoot at.

TACPACK helps you out in that regard with what the call "Scenarios" - small text files that allow you to add things like other aircraft in the sky or on the ground, tankers, aircraft carriers, SAMs and ships…anything in your SimObject Airplanes or Boats folder.

Having purchased the excellent MILVIZ F-4E, I decided to give it some targets from its era. I found Michael Pearson's awesome Mig-21 series at this site - perfect for some target practice over the Fulda Gap.

The way these Scenario files work: You make an entry for an aircraft, select a title from your SimObjects\Airplanes folder, give it a start Lat & Long, heading, speed and altitude. See https://forums.vrsimulations.com/suppor ... _.28TPS.29

That's it - they fly in a straight line - not that exciting but good practice.

I set up a scenario file of a few of Michael Pearson's Mig-21's in 2-pane sections, loaded everything up and gave it a shot…it worked…sort of. I guess since the aircraft never started up, taxied, and took off, they think they are still on the ground…well at least that they haven't started their engines. They were, cruising along at 450 KTAS, chocks & boarding ladder still there, engine cover in place and with a "Remove Before Flight" flag still on the nose…but the landing gear was up. (…although given the Mig-21's dubious ejection seat record, I guess bailing out by climbing down the boarding ladder might be a good idea )

I will eventually generate some flight plans for these aircraft which I assume will solve this issue. That said, any ideas as to how to make these aircraft are flying / the engine has started?

Cheers
Hangar 200

[col1948]

No wonder we can't get them you have shot them all lol.

[Victory103]

Hangar200, welcome and you have come to right place for all things military AI. Long time TP and MAIW user, I run the same .tps files and use FSX@War with CCP. On the VRS forums, search for user "ChrisP", who has made a few mission scenerios using Mike's AI as wingman and other flyable models as bandits in Korea and VN areas. ChrisP actually the AI react with the player, not yank and banking, but good enough to be fun. The xml coding on modern day AI, which looks great in single player mode, cause the issues you mentioned in MP or running these scenerios. The MGAI KC-135 has a MP friendly version that removes the RBF flags, fire bottle, etc for such use. I try to keep my framerates up, so I find older AI like MK's 1st gen Mig-21, or I just turn off all other traffic based on which mission I am running. FSX@War comes with AI, although I would prefer to swap in my NBAI Typhoon, but again, the xml coding will look weird at altitude.

[Hangar200]

Thanks for the info. I thought it would be something like that. I've done more than a few missions so I'll probably just fall back on that. I too like models like Mike's Mig 21s - textures are clear and they look great - as far as anymore detail, it's we're not trying to get close enough to count rivets.

Regarding "dog fighting" AI - while it cannot come near to something like DCS - you can make an AI aircraft in an FSX mission try to get on "your 6" You need to use "SimVar" - a little app that opens up more mission functions. I wonder if this is was ChrisP did - I've seen is posts on VRS forums and I assume he's the same person on the FSX@War forums - I'll have to check them out - thanks for the pointer.

[MIKE JG]

And therein lies the issue. The AI models are built for that system, the AI system. Hence the stuff that only disappears when the model becomes active.

The solution as Chris is correctly pointing out is to make multi-player specific versions that get rid of the tricks and eye candy and give you a base model.

Which reminds me, we should probably do that with the F-16s that are coming out. Not that hard to remove that stuff, much more work to put it in.

[Walker]

I'm also waiting for these AI F-16s, as many other people and user also of MAIW
AIs - though I make changes in aircraft's .cfg & air.files for my flying purposes - see below - and the reason I keep an eye on MAIW.

I guess since the aircraft never started up, taxied, and took off, they think they are still on the ground…

At least for Single flying, you can overcome this if you use CCP (instead of .tps files) with the AIs taking off from the runway or in Missions the same way. When Airborn, they look as they should.

You need to use "SimVar" - a little app that opens up more mission functions. I wonder if this is was ChrisP did

Yes, this is exactly what I do - I'm "ChrisP" though "Walker" here.

I've engaged myself a lot researching the "dog fighting" AI abilities in FSX using the Mission System and the abilities that "SimVar" opens in this system :

You can have AIs that follow dynamic Wpts (refreshed every second) relative to user or
relative other AIs. This permits for AIs flying as Wingmen in formation with user or hostile AIs chasing/intercepting the user and/or AIs intercepting other AIs.
You may also have AIs changing their following Waypoints from user to AIs or from dynamic to static Wpts and vice versa and all sort of combinations, based on user's command of doing so or by meeting predefined mission conditions (like reaching over an area for example).

Here is an example of a pair of Mirage F1s Recon/intercepting a pair of F-4s back in the 80's. All AIs found here and Airborne spawned F-4s present the "behaviour" Hangar200 described, while the taking off F1 AI doesn't. Task of user is to lead the pair of F1s to close formation position with the F-4s that will trigger their exodus from the violating Airspace :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzC0q5lHg3E

These are quite good foundations for developing Aerial Combat features in FSX/P3D in Mission System, considering also that if you do so over a destructible FSX@War theater, eg. Libya theater, the combat experience you may have in terms of both immersion and fun, are quite ahead of what you may have in Free Flight mode.

But, apart of intercepting you, AIs also "need" a way of shooting you down (and shooting down other AIs). Though such an application is in the works from a developer... - as far as I happen to know - currently for achieving this, I use simulated parameters (mission conditions) for the "AI weapons" to trigger damage (failures) on user's plane or to other AIs when conditions are met and such "Probability of Kill" happens.

Here is an example of an F-18 engaging four Libyan MiG23s in a missile combat simulation :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRqT3jf0Oc

Or even an AI F-14 bombing a hostile military base (FSX@War, Libya theater) while user will engage any hostile fighters at the area :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kAGGmNSFIU

Of course the FSX/P3D AI engine is for civilian planes and not the DCS AI engine... So enemy AIs can be quite good in level turns (even better if also loose altitude, ie turning and decenting at the same time) but suffer a lot in gaining altitude.
Keeping this in mind, the "game" is not totally lost... You can actually have AIs intercepting the way described above but capable of fancy evading manouvering when it comes to that (conditions met / triggered) by switching to what I call "defensive AI mode" (in contrast to "offensive AI mode" that is the first intercepting mod) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqFrP5tAIs

Concluding and talking about Military AIs, flight plans and AirBase traffic can greatly enhance immersion (as with the various MAIW packages) but there is much more potential of what may be achieved regarding Military flying in FSX/P3D...

[Hangar200]

Copy all. I'm not a multi-player simmer however, I see your point.

The TACPCK scenario system is pretty basic. It does somehow tell the aircraft that they are flying because the landing gear is up…but that's it. I assume that the Mig-21 ground support stuff goes away at engine start…so if that "pop into the air" there is probably some flags that is not triggered.

Regardless, I don't think the good folks TACPACK meant the scenarios for anything more than basic practice stuff - everything but the tanker just flies or drives in a straight line. So no worries about the Mig-21's. It will be more fun to work them into a mission!

[Hangar200]

Hi ChrisP/Walker,

Taking a look at your Simulated Aerial Combat (FSX) video, I think I understand how you get planes to intercept using SimVar

Player tail =AC101; "Mig" tail = MIG1

so something like:

SimVar WPT INTERCEPT MIG1 FOLLOW AC101 0 -1000 0

I can also think of a way to use Area Triggers…maybe Proximity triggers…for the Mig to take the shot from a realistic "cone" behind the player. - no smoke trail but a text pop should work well enough.

If I am correct, this could be done in a regular (non FSX@War/CCP) mission.

I have no idea how you get the percentages to work.

However, am I about correct for the intercept?

R/ Hangar200

P.S. Awesome Videos!

[Ripcord]

Sure you can use SIMVAR commands in a mission, but remember that TACPACK is designed for MP in Free Flight. You can use TP with missions, but only for single player missions.