help the unsure

[nativesam]

Hello, I'm new to this so please bare with me. I would like to know if or how to find out more about ai refueling. How and where in the USA is there tankers flying or a download that makes the tanker lower it's boom to me or plane flying at time. I don't know anyone that is friendly enough to walk me thru setup or show me where I can find files or site to go to. Or indeed I'm just out of luck and just need to find out alone.


Thanks,
Scott

[MIKE JG]

I see you got in, excellent!

As far as the AI tanking goes, there are a couple of options. I don't have time to go into them all right now but for now, just know that there is a non AI KC-135 that has its boom permanently in the down position that you can write a flight plan for and use that. There's the EVAI KC-135E model with the old school engines that I believe has the boom XML'd to come down at a specific time so you could use that as well.

The PAI KC-135 and CDAI KC-10 do not have any moving or extended booms to use.

I have to run but I'm sure others will fill in the details for you.

[ronniegj]

Now that you mention this, I have been doing some thought on this very subject.

AFAIK there is no tanker currently able to actually act as a refuel point ATT. There are/is a tanker out there with permanently extended boom/hoses, but that is a real buzz kill. However, there is a gauge setup for Olsens' F-16, and perhaps a couple of other a/c that allow you to use radar to track and refuel from any a/c flying in your sim (I assume this is only AI, as I know nothing about multi player), and doesn't need to be a tanker. All the action happens at the fighter, not the servicing a/c.

However, I have been thinking about the possibility of setting up an AI a/c as tanker with operating boom and visor, and or drogue hoses. Would the xml coding be able to check a variable and raise/lower the visor/boom and/or extend the drogue hoses, to provide the visual candy to play along with the Olsen F-16? Perhaps the xml could limit the action to a specific band of altitude, and further, could the xml detect and act upon the presence of an another a/c within a certain distance of the servicing a/c at the specific band of altitude?

I suspect that the visuals to make this worth the trouble would add considerably to the polys making it inpracticable for a fleet, but maybe not so for a single instance or so per airfield/station. The setup would not have to be an entirely new a/c, but rather a module that could be added to a base model using a Boolean cut. This would be not possible, except for one thing -- Mike had mention the possibility of updating the KC as the class project for his upcoming modeling vids. Why not discuss, and perhaps plan out the mod as an advanced eye candy add-on for the new updated KC? A chance for the other guru's to step in and teach about Boolean and xml advanced methods!

In the interim, if there are KC crew/maint types out there willing to perhaps take a couple of high quality pics using a polarizing filter of the visor in down and up positions (with boomer in place behind his/her window, lighted well enough to be visible), and the external of the enclosing box to create accurate textures, etc. Well you get the idea. BTW the -10 could use the same update, as well as any other tankers world wide, if someone were to be so inclined once the basics are worked out!

Just a thought!

Ron

[kungfuman]

I'm in way over my head here...

You talk about the visuals and their extra hit on frames - but this need not be a problem for a fleet, as the relevant visuals will not be "called" unless the aircraft is above a certain height (if that's how the models are coded). So, extra polys won't be called in the airfield situation, when there are many of the fleet present. At altitude probably only one or two aircraft would be present, allowing more processor resources to be utilised for rendering the extra visual effects. Additionally, a fleet might contain a number of model variations, such as boom operation being triggered at different altitudes - or not at all.

But I really know nothing about this. Just thinking out loud.

[MIKE JG]

Dan you're on the right track there. The one tanker, which is not specifically AI is made by Rok Dolnec, and is the one with fixed booms. It looks weird taking off and landing of course with the boom in the extended position, but if you flight plan it from a fictional airport, you never have to see it near the ground. You'll have to search around for it, it got lost with the AVSIM hack. It might be at Flightsim dot com.

Unfortunately you can't program them to fly true AI refueling tracks which are normally racetrack patterns. That would be cool if you could.

[ronniegj]

Unfortunately you can't program them to fly true AI refueling tracks which are normally racetrack patterns. That would be cool if you could.

But, if you can accept the idea of a straight path along a know track, at a time certain (careful flight planning) and you could intercept that track at the appropriate time, then you could nudge up to the a/c as tho to refuel, using the mentioned gauge to refill your tanks, it would be suitable if not totally realistic. You could fp multiple tankers along the route at set intervals (really careful fp'ing) coming along often enough that refuels could be accomplished without getting dragged too far from the desired intercept point to totally hose the mission, esp if there were tankers coming from the opposite direction at alternating intervals so as to mimic the long legs of an oval race track. This would be not unlike some missions flown during the cold war. The bright side, we don't have to worry about fuel cost and maintenance schedules.

Ron

[MIKE JG]

Ron that's a really great idea and something that is very do-able.

I have used AI to practice tanking with in the past and it seems like the PAI KC-135 tends to wander quite a bit, back and forth trying to hold its heading. I think there's a way to cure that in the .cfg file but I would have to do some research.

If I can get my main computer put back together and get started on the AI aircraft tutorial, we can build a nice, new KC-135 model and give it an XML controlled extending boom and drogues. That would make us all happy.

[Firebird]

Having done some online military stuff in the past I can say that there is no automatic refuel option when you connect up to a tanker. You have to kick off a transfer manually and obviously stop the transfer manually as well. I just set up a button on the joystick to do this.

If you want to simulate a boom lowering then it can be done with xml, in the same way that drogue can be streamed via xml. I don't believe that there is currently an AI model that extends a boom, but there is an old freeware Vulcan K2 that extends a drogue plus a very nice new model that extends a drogue, not sure if it has been released yet so I won't say any more. There was also a package, maybe LAGO, that had a refuel system set up for the Tornado.

So I believe that at this moment you can or will have the option of probing but not being boomed. However, there is a rumour of a new KC-135 project being planned and that could/should have an xml boom.

[f4nutter]

your right steve, there is a refuel option in the raf tornado addon for FS9 by just flight, you can choose VC10/KC10 which has 1 F16 flying in formation with it, try looking on amazon or ebay for it,you can refuel any flyable AC.

[KevinJarvis]

The refuel gauge in the Kirk Olsen viper works quite well.
Yes, it allow refueling from any AI aircraft. But if you know the location of a military refueling a/c that just makes it more believable.

I would think the gauge could be moved to any aircraft you wish with just a bit of work.

[Victory103]

Hello, I'm new to this so please bare with me. I would like to know if or how to find out more about ai refueling. How and where in the USA is there tankers flying or a download that makes the tanker lower it's boom to me or plane flying at time. I don't know anyone that is friendly enough to walk me thru setup or show me where I can find files or site to go to. Or indeed I'm just out of luck and just need to find out alone.


Thanks,
Scott

Look over at Flightsim.com for the KC-135T package that has the boom in the down position at all times as mentioned on here. The model is flyable, but low poly enough for AI, comes with both the boom and drogue system. I have this set up for the VRS F-18. There is also a gauge out that allows you to add/remove fuel directly from the panel. I use this for online MP refueling or just manually add fuel from the FS menu. Sadly, XPlane has had this for years and it's a challenge.