Newbie ADE question

The Tutorials forum section is the place where you can learn the various techniques that go into the creation of AI traffic packages.
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Newbie ADE question

Post by dummy »

Hi there,

i'm new with ADE and recently start fiddling around to enhance sceneries. One thing though i don't understand is why my AI won't move. I see them parked at the spot but they won't taxi out. And no traffic is coming in for landing.
The airport in question is KNMM (NAS Meridian). The airport has two runways with the same orientation: 01L/19R and 01R/19L and one runway 10/28. The idea was to let the ai start on 01R and land on 01L or start on 19R and land on 19L.

I wanted to start from scratch so i deleted al the taxiways and parkingspots. then i added new parkingspots and connected them with taxiways to the runways (01L/19R an 01R/19L) Runway 10/28 i left unconnected at this time.
I ran the fault finder and that came up with nothing. I saved and compiled the scenery and installed it in FSX.
Everything showed up but the ai won't move. After checking everything over and over i tried to connect runway 10/28 to see if it made a difference and to my suprise the ai taxied to runway 10/28. :shock: I then disconnected runway 10/28 and compiled it again. Ai got stuck on the parking spot again. :cry: Then reconnected runway 10/28 again but even then the ai would still sit on the parking spot.

I don't know what im doing wrong.
So i hope someone can help me sort this out. Is this a familiar problem to someone?
Hope to hear from you.

Best regards,

Edwin

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by dummy »

Oh....and how can i attach the AD4 file to my post? :oops:

TheFoufure
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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by TheFoufure »

dummy wrote:
18 May 2020, 12:11
Oh....and how can i attach the AD4 file to my post? :oops:
If you answer with the FULL editor, there is a button for Attachments, where you can add your file ;-)

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by dummy »

TheFoufure wrote:
18 May 2020, 13:31
If you answer with the FULL editor, there is a button for Attachments, where you can add your file
Thanks, but when i try to attach the file i get the following message :(
Invalid file extension: meridian test edwin.ad4

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by JohnTenn »

Edwin

The way I understand the AI priorities is as follows:

AI will use the longest runway unless the wind favours another runway.

If the runways are parallel and the same length the fist runway on the list is priority for take-off.

To change the order, Click on tab "Lists"

Click on "runways"

In the new window click on the runway you want and push it to the top of the list.

Click "close" tab on bottom right to save your change and exit this window.

If the longest runway is not connected the AI will vanish when they start to taxy.

John

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by dummy »

Hi John,

Thank you for your reply. The problem is not that the AI will take the wrong runway but that they will nog leave their parking spot. It is just like they are static airplanes. They won't disappear either. Hope this will make sense.

Edwin

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Greg
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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by Greg »

Perhaps I'm missing something, but you didn't close 10/28?

If you don't close a runway, it may still be considered as active runway by the sim, even if it is not connected. If you don't want AI to use a certain runway then you need to go into the runway properties window, select the '"Pattern" tab and set Takeoff and Landing for both Primary and Secondary to NO.

Likewise, you can force the sim to only assign 01R or 19R for take-off and 01L or 19L for landing by closing the other end.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by dummy »

Hi Greg,

thanks for your answer. I didn't close 10/28 i only disconnected it by deleting taxiways.
I did as you mentioned and selected takeoff and landing for both primary runways and landing for both secondary.
I checked the order of the runways in de " lists" as mentioned by John and they were in the correct order.
Yesterday i disconnected all runways and then reconnected them again. after starting up FSX the ai would taxi out but only to 10/28.
Both 01R/19L and 01L/19R are ignored.

I have 01R and 19R set as takeoff runways and 01L and 19L as landing runways in the "pattern" tab.

I really want them to use 01R/19L and 01L/19R. Any idea on that?
Why would they only use 10/28? And if i disconnect 10/28 why don't they use the other 2 runways?

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by TimC340 »

I don’t think this forum software recognises .ad4 as a valid file type, so you’ll have to zip it to upload it.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by Greg »

It's still not clear to me if 10/28 is closed now or not. It doesn't sound like it.

Again, you need to set both takeoff and landing for both primary and secondary to "NO". That's 4 NO's for 10/28 in the pattern tab. Disconnecting doesn't do anything for runway selection. It is also advisable to remove both start locations for 10/28.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by dummy »

Greg,

thanks again for your reply. I closed the 10/28 and removed the start locations and the ai will now use the 01R/19L and 01L/19R. :D (thougt that disconnecting the runway would do the same as closing the runway)
I always thougt that runway selection was based on wind direction, so if the wind is out of 030 the most favourable runway would be 01.
But for now, if the wind comes from the west or east the ai will never use 10/28?
is there no solution to use al three runways depending on wind direction?

thanks again for the help guys!! most appreciated. :lol:

Edwin

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by Firebird »

There is something that seems to help in this situation.
Somebody years ago developed the concept of Star runways. I think it was Jim Vile, but I am not 100% sure. There is some documentation that describes how to do it but I seem to remember that when I looked at it it made no sense to me at the time.

Star runways is nothing to do with star approaches. Maybe somebody here uses it and can explain how it works. Maybe one day I will go back and look at the doc.
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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by John Young »

I have that tutorial Steve and I had the same thought too when I saw the post. It's a difficult read as you say, but I don't think it's relevant here because the tutorial is dealing with cross-wind runways. It's too big to attach, but I have put a copy in your FTP folder should you want to have a look.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by TimC340 »

'Crosswind runways' is about persuading the sim to use more than one runway at once, rather than only the one that's most favoured by the wind. That's relevant for airfields like KSFO, where operations are regularly carried out on both the 10/28 and 01/19s at the same time (spookily similar to the OP's airfield).

Without the .ad4 file, it's very difficult to diagnose. However, I've had a similar problem in the last few days trying to get traffic to taxi to parking after landing, when they insisted on disappearing. ADE reported no faults, I couldn't find anything out of place (it's a very simple grass runway addition to another airfield, with its own ID). In the end, I had to rebuild the taxi network - fortunately a parallel taxiway with just one parking space.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by TimC340 »

Hi Edwin

interesting one. I firstly installed your airport on my laptop, which has a vanilla installation of FSX:SE on board, and saw exactly what you describe - nothing moves. However, I was getting a 6025 error which was crashing FSX, so I moved it to the installation on my dev computer. That one has FSX:SE with some addons, including (usefully) Traffic Global, which has its own AFCAD for KNMM. Being in a bit of a hurry at that point, I forgot to activate your scenery and was a little confused when the stock airport appeared but with a lot of parking - and a full ramp of T-45s plus a load of Traffic Global-generated GA.

All the GA traffic departs and arrives as it should (though with some strange runway priorities), but the MAIW T-45s stay put. Not a peep. So the issue is somewhere in the MAIW Meridian traffic file, I would wager.

I haven't investigated further yet, but I then activated your airport and the same behaviour is evident. I have noticed one or two other minor issues with your field, but I'll let it run for a few hours and see what patterns emerge.

Edit: question. Did you modify the stock airport, or did you start from scratch? I can see you used an image for alignment, and that your apron is in a different position to the stock airport, but I'm wondering if the traffic behaviour issues are related to the stock field.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by TimC340 »

Just to treble-check, I decided to see if the Matrix version of the traffic file would display the same behaviour. That meant loading up P3Dv4 (on my main computer, that's a 40-minute wait!). To do a double-blind check, I used John Stinstrom's KNMM which I know will have few, if any, routing issues. Sure enough, nothing moves.

I'll have a look at the traffic file over the weekend, though I'm not certain my expertise is up to fault-finding. But it has to be something fundamental to stop all of the T-45 traffic from moving, and I'd guess it probably was introduced in the conversion from FS9. I might have a look using FS9 to see if the original traffic file works.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by Delboy99 »

There is a known problem with the FSX T45 and Hawk conversions caused by a corrupt .fx file. See this thread https://militaryaiworks.com/forums/1/18786 . This can cause the 6025 error and a crash to desktop. I don't know if it will stop them from moving, but it might be worth try.

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by JohnTenn »

Tim

My FS9 version of KNMM works.

Traffic movement is limited, but when they do move they taxi to 19R for take-off.

To check you would have to find a busy time in the flight plan schedule.

Perhaps swap out the aircraft for another type to check the, aircraft specific, hypothesis.

John

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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by Firebird »

The traffic works fine for FS9 which may mean that Delboy may be correct about the fx file. It could be that nothing happens when they start from scratch rather than crash the game if the aircraft spawns in flight.

So check to see if you have got the amended fx_dummy.fx in FSX/P3D and see if the traffic works OK.
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Re: Newbie ADE question

Post by TimC340 »

Thanks guys. I let the sim (P3Dv4) run for several hours last night, and plenty of other traffic arrived and left, but the T-45s stayed rooted to the spot! I’ll try that fx mod and see what happens. I’m pretty sure I don’t have that problem with T-45s elsewhere (Kingsville, for instance, is extremely active), so I wonder if I have an old version of the TW1 T-45 on my system - but, whatever it is, it’s the same problem that Edwin was reporting.

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