Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

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asdro
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Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by asdro »

Germany is in contact with US Government and Airbus for possible future orders of more Eurofighter Jets or F/A-18.

The jets would substitute the older Tordanos in the fleet.

When a decision will be made and how many aircrafts will be ordered was not announced.

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by asdro »

The german government has decided to order 90 more Eurofighter jets and 45x F-18 for Tornado replacement.
Delivery should start in 2025.

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by hawk_sh »

asdro wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 09:04
The german government has decided to order 90 more Eurofighter jets and 45x F-18 for Tornado replacement.
Delivery should start in 2025.
What is the source for your claim that the decision is already made?

Everything that I found so far is about "plans".
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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Firebird »

If it is the case I would be surprised as the cost involved supporting another type, especially for 45 aircraft, seems weird. The only way it makes sense is if the 45 aircraft were for Growlers rather than Hornets, as the EF2000 can't just take over the ECR role.
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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by TheFoufure »

Wich version of F/A-18 ?

F, for dual seats strike like Tornado IDS ?
G, to replace the Tornado ECR ?

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Kulbit »

Really strange since the only reason why the tornado is still in service, both in Italy and in Germany, is the fact that it is the only aircraft enabled for NATO's tactical nuclear strike. In Italy it will be replaced in this role by the F35, as soon as it has received the nuclear operational capability. Currently the Typhoon has no nuclear weapons capability (B61) and implementation will be mandatory to maintain NATO's nuclear strike capability. The problem is above all a political one, as the USA is unlikely to give the go-ahead to implement the avionics systems necessary for the use of the B61 on the Typhoon, losing the profit from the sale of the F35. It would also constitute an excellent alternative also for Italy, which could review the planned order of further F35s to replace its tornadoes, in the role of nuclear strike, in favor of the less expensive Typhoon.

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by asdro »

I red that in two different sources, today.

The F-18 will be used also for thermal-nuclear bomb transportation.

These orders are for Tornado replacement.

The last orders for new Eurofighters were made for replacement of older Eurofighters.

@Firebird

It was discussed a few times in the past that germany would like to order also F-18.

As for the 90x Eurofighter, i think it was a favour, because the manufacturer told that if germany should not place an order for more Eurofighters as Tornado replacement,
it would cause the loss of thousands of jobs.


Germany is also going to place an order for new CH-53Ks or/and CH-47 Chinook, probably this year.

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Firebird »

I read, in Flight (I think) that neither the EF2000 nor the F/A-18 can currently carry the nukes. Although they did say that it would probably be quicker and cheaper to add the capability to the Hornet .
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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Kulbit »

Firebird wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 18:10
I read, in Flight (I think) that neither the EF2000 nor the F/A-18 can currently carry the nukes. Although they did say that it would probably be quicker and cheaper to add the capability to the Hornet .
The F / A 18 is fully operational for the nuclear strike and already enabled for the use of the B61, constituting, among other things, the vector of the tactical nuclear deterrent of the battle groups focused on the US navy aircraft carriers

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Victory103 »

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Kulbit »

Victory103 wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 21:37
Article I saw on Scramble:

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inl ... 97183.html
very interesting article that, as I had imagined, focuses on the crucial point of the need to maintain a carrier for the nuclear strike, and the economic problems related to the acquisition of a non-European aircraft

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by TheFoufure »

Kulbit wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 20:14
Firebird wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 18:10
I read, in Flight (I think) that neither the EF2000 nor the F/A-18 can currently carry the nukes. Although they did say that it would probably be quicker and cheaper to add the capability to the Hornet .
The F / A 18 is fully operational for the nuclear strike and already enabled for the use of the B61, constituting, among other things, the vector of the tactical nuclear deterrent of the battle groups focused on the US navy aircraft carriers

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On this pic, it's F/A-18A or C (no more in use in US Navy since some weeks). But are F/A-18E/F operationnal to be vector of nuke bomb ?

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Victory103 »

Those are Charlies, and nothing I can find in the F-18E flight manuals list the "nuclear consent" panel as found in the legacy Hornet. I guess if it is wired already from Boeing it would be easier to adapt in the Super Hornet.
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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Kulbit »

The upgraded F / A-18 Super Hornet Block III, which the us navy is receiving these days, are already equipped with the avionics necessary to use the new B61 nuclear bombs.The new variant has increased range (via conformal fuel tanks, over the wings in low drag configuration, opening up new weapon stations) and enhanced situational awareness via new advanced glass cockpit systems Further features include advanced network connectivity via satellite communication (SATCOM), a 9,000 hour airframce and significant reduced signature (lower radar cross section) with coating on few additional hotspots. A common tactical picture is also added, i.e. long wave/range Infrared Search And Track Systems (IRST) (Program of Record independent of Block IIII), Distributed Targeting Processor Network (DTP-N) open architecture, multi-level secure processor and Collins Aerospace's Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT) datalink

Two jets are to be delivered this year and, according to Boeing, "all Block IIs will become Block IIIs via an upgrade programme, delivered through 2033; 550 Block IIIs alltogether."

Thee Block III Super HORNET (and incidentally the E/A-18 GROWLER) are the ones offered to Germany to replace its fleet of aging TORNADOs and manteining nuclear capability.

(the Block III new glass cockpit)
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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by VulcanDriver »

The VRS Superbug had a non functioning nuke switch in the FS2004 version, seeing as it was built with help of US Navy pilots I assume it was a true representation
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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by asdro »

Germany has confirmed the orders of 45x F18.

30x F18 Superhornet

15x F18 Growler.

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by Manschy »

Sounds like they are in 'clinch' with the coalition partner - in Germany nothing will be decided that fast, trust me 8)
Regards, Manfred.

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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by hawk_sh »

asdro wrote:
19 Apr 2020, 23:10
Germany has confirmed the orders of 45x F18.

30x F18 Superhornet

15x F18 Growler.
This is wrong.

plans, intentions, rumours, discussions, reports, political debates...

no official announcement, no placed order, no signed deal, no confirmation

This is not a done deal, yet.
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Re: Germany wants F/A-18 or Eurofighter for Tornado retirement

Post by TheFoufure »

hawk_sh wrote:
20 Apr 2020, 15:40
asdro wrote:
19 Apr 2020, 23:10
Germany has confirmed the orders of 45x F18.

30x F18 Superhornet

15x F18 Growler.
This is wrong.

plans, intentions, rumours, discussions, reports, political debates...

no official announcement, no placed order, no signed deal, no confirmation

This is not a done deal, yet.


Here is the publication by Scramble (source Scramble Facebook Page).

The decision must be approuved by Parliament. Not yet a real order.
Germany "orders" Super Hornet and Growler as Tornado replacement

Following our earlier reports (*) on the new fighter aircraft for the Luftwaffe (GAF, German Air Force), it is now reported that a final decision was made: the Luftwaffe will take the next steps in ordering thirty Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornets and fifteen Boeing EA-18G Growlers.

The 45 aircraft, together with an order for new Eurofighter EF2000 Typhoons, will replace the Luftwaffe's ageing fleet of Tornados. Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer emailed her US counterpart Mark Esper on 16 April 2020, informing him of her decision. The official announcement is still pending.

According to Der Spiegel (German Media), the action of the Defense Minister may have upset the Social Democrats, the junior partners in Chancellor Angela Merkel’s ruling coalition, as the Minister did not inform them before making her decision. Kramp-Karrenbauer’s predecessor, Ursula von der Leyen, had offered a compromise to the SPD, in which Germany would buy US fighter aircraft alongside the Airbus SE-manufactured Eurofighter Typhoon.

According to German business publication Handelsblatt, which first reported the split buy, Germany needs the Super Hornet to fill a NATO requirement to field fighter aircraft capable of dropping the B61 nuclear gravity bomb. However, only the legacy Hornet, and not the Super Hornet, was ever certified to carry that type of bomb.

A lot of discussion within the German parliament will surely follow.
Last edited by TheFoufure on 20 Apr 2020, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.

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