AI BlackHawk

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Hippolyto

AI BlackHawk

Post by Hippolyto »

Hi, good morning.

I am searching for a good AI BlackHawk.

Does MAIW has any? Or which do you recommend?

Thank you.

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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by TheFoufure »

No MAIW H-60 AI.
Some are using Jordan Moore exemple (not real AI), other prefer the JFAI version (Just Flight, but payware).
Perso, I use the JFAI. There is a lot of repaints.

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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by Victory103 »

Search on Hovercontrol.com for the ADF AI Blackhawk based on J. Moore model for freeware. This model was intended to be an AI version of the flyable model that was never finished. All the normal paints will fit including a FAB version. The JFAI model is AI, but has some scale issues (it is too big). It is payware, but if you purchase the military pack it will also come with an AI AS365 Dolphin and A-Star (although there is a better freeware AI model out for the A-Star 350 series).

A true MAIW standard AI built H-60 is on the WIP list.
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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by Ripcord »

Wondering if anybody is doing any repaints for US Army units, using this AI H-60 by Jordan Moore?

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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by Victory103 »

Prior to getting the JFAI model, I used a 101st repaint that had some weathering and was generic enough for me to use as AI on the HC AI WIP model mentioned above. Search us_army_101st on Hovercontrol or author's name, K. Sunley.
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MIKE JG
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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by MIKE JG »

Problem with the Blackhawk, like a lot of helicopters, is that it (especially the Blackhawk) has a complex shape to it that is not that easy to model while trying to keep the polygons under control.

The idea with AI models is to keep them low on polygons so that you can have a lot of models displayed at one time without slowing down your processor's ability to render all the models at once. Add on to that the requirement to then texture each model as well and it's a big ask of a processor's ability. Generally we try to use just one 1024x1024 texture sheet to texture each model but even that is hard to do with a complex model that has many different parts like a Blackhawk does. Keep in mind that not only do you have to color the actual rotor blades themselves, but you also have to color the rotor disc's, tail and main, as part of the overall model. You can't really add an entire rotor disc to a 1024x1024 texture sheet and still have room for all the other parts of the model. So with helicopters, we're typically using up to three different texture sheets per model at a minimum, one for the main rotor disc, one for the tail rotor disc, and one for the main model itself. Now add in to the equation any interior parts of the model you may want to show like the interior of the Chinook, that also has to be textured and you may or may not have room on one of your three sheets to add that part. So potentially you're up to four individual texture sheets for a single AI model which is getting away from what we're trying to accomplish.

A typical aircraft fuselage can be modeled from one cylindrical part. The Blackhawk cannot. I've started on it many times and there's just no way to make everything out of one smooth part. The power pack that sits on top of the Blackhawk must be done separately. The nose section of the Blackhawk is also another complex shape that doesn't lend itself to a low polygon count.

Then you've got all the bits and pieces that they've bolted on to the UH-60 series over the years that have to be modeled and added on. These are all additional polygons that start adding up as you go. Pretty soon your low poly AI model has the same polygon count as a flyable model and you've accomplished nothing.

So it is a difficult model to produce with a low poly count and still get it to look good. These days the processors can handle more polygons in our models but we still try to keep the overall count to under 5000 for any given main model and then start reducing the poly count for each subsequent level of detail model.

This is all the further I've gotten with my Super Stallion model.
Image

It has stalled mainly because the polygon count is out of control and I haven't even modeled the cockpit or pilots yet. It's sitting at just over 6000 polygons right now and the pilots, cockpit and the remaining bits will add another 2000-4000 polygons. So it will come out around 10,000 polygons for the main model which is about twice what we're shooting for.

The Blackhawk would probably go even higher based on my previous attempts to start on it.

So to make a long story short, certain models are more challenging than others and there's a reason we don't yet have an AI Blackhawk model yet.

I think it will get done eventually but it won't be from me, I don't have that sort of patience any longer. Remember once you get the main model built with all of its separate parts textured, you get to build another 6-8 models of the same thing using lower levels of detail as you go. So the end result is a single AI model that is made up of 6-9 individual models all combined into one to produce the result you see on the screen.

It's a ton of work that we're giving away for free.
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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by John Young »

I started a Gmax model at the weekend of a HH-60G Pave Hawk. I'm making 6 of them for Ian Macartney's in progress RAF Lakenheath for FSX, but I've started with an FS9 model, so I'll be producing both versions.

Mike is right, it is a very challenging model to design, probably the most complex for me so far, but I'm enjoying it greatly:

Image

Polygon count as of a few minutes ago is 5310, so I'm clearly going to hit 8000 by the time I've finished, depending on what crew I use.

That's not too much of a problem. Polygon count is not too important these days. What really matters is the number of draw calls, texture vertex count and the opportunity to take out most of that small detail in the second and third LODs. All of that I can control. I've built AI aircraft with 9000 polygons in LOD1 before and they have been fine.

Fingers crossed for this one.

John

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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by Garysb »

The helicopter bug then John :D

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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by Firebird »

Very nice.
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Re: AI BlackHawk

Post by mikewmac »

Below is a link to a short, somewhat primitive video I made two years ago of some FSX AI VT ARNG Blackhawk helicopters taking off from their KBTV base:

http://youtu.be/-kxW2uzJdhE

These were derivatives of the flyable Jordan Moore UH-60 Blackhawk repainted with the correct tail numbers for the VT ARNG Blackhawks at that time and used a custom AI FDE that I created for their use with HeliTraffic 2009 in FSX.

Here is a link to the original two year old thread that included that video if you care to read more:

http://www.militaryaiworks.com/newforum ... 45&t=12733
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    Re: AI BlackHawk

    Post by John Young »

    Thanks for the link Mike.

    Actually, it's all Mike's fault LOL, for which I'm grateful. If he hadn't asked me to tinker with some Sea Kings I would still have still be resisting AI helicopters. As it happens, it was very fortuitous, because with that practice I'm now set up to deliver the other set of AI (Pave Hawks) for Ian's Lakenheath, having done the F-15s for him. It would be good to try Kevin's code in FSX too, having proven it on the Sea King.

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    Re: AI BlackHawk

    Post by mikewmac »

    John Young wrote:Thanks for the link Mike.

    Actually, it's all Mike's fault LOL, for which I'm grateful. If he hadn't asked me to tinker with some Sea Kings I would still have still be resisting AI helicopters. As it happens, it was very fortuitous, because with that practice I'm now set up to deliver the other set of AI (Pave Hawks) for Ian's Lakenheath, having done the F-15s for him. It would be good to try Kevin's code in FSX too, having proven it on the Sea King.

    John
    Hi John,

    I plead guilty for that, but the credit all goes to you for doing so much more than tinkering with the Sea Kings and in so doing creating such an outstanding new set of JYAI Sea Hawks. :smt023

    I posted that two year old video so that folks interested in AI helicopters in FSX could see some of what can be accomplished with HeliTraffic 2009 in FSX without the use of any unique takeoff and/or landing animations whatsoever. :wink:

    If I remember correctly I think I eventually was able to get the AI helicopters to hover taxi back in after landing and maybe even out to takeoff, before I was distracted from FSX back to FS9 for some AI FDE development projects. :shock: :lol:

    I'll have to fire up FSX at KBTV and see exactly what I had accomplished with HeliTraffic 2009. I know I had both AI VT ARNG BlackHawks and Kiowas flying all over Vermont. I even had a VT ANG F-16C flying a continuous circuit around KBTV that included a 250 knot military break half way down runway 15 into a 360 degree circle pattern before continuing its circuit, but unfortunately no landing since HeliTraffic 2009 included no landing capability for fixed wing AI. :( :lol:
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      Re: AI BlackHawk

      Post by John Young »

      That's a very nice take-off in the video Mike. So is that lift purely a function of HeliTraffic 2009 or is it a combination of your FDE and HeliTraffic?

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      Re: AI BlackHawk

      Post by mikewmac »

      John Young wrote:That's a very nice take-off in the video Mike. So is that lift purely a function of HeliTraffic 2009 or is it a combination of your FDE and HeliTraffic?

      John
      John, the vertical lift off, departure course and climb out path is a function of HeliTraffic 2009 and the settings that I used in it. If I remember correctly I think my AI FDE only affected the speed at which it occurred and then only to a modest extent.
      Last edited by mikewmac on 29 Apr 2015, 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
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        Re: AI BlackHawk

        Post by MIKE JG »

        Multiple cats out of the bag now..... :mrgreen:

        The Pave Hawk is probably the most complex of all the versions too.... You're smart to start with that one.
        Last edited by MIKE JG on 29 Apr 2015, 02:07, edited 1 time in total.
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        Re: AI BlackHawk

        Post by clickclickdoh »

        :shock:

        I come home from work and find a forum full of awesome!

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        Re: AI BlackHawk

        Post by Victory103 »

        As most know, I've spent most of my military career with 2 forms of H-60. I know I'm not alone, but it is the one AI model I always vote for. Great read MIKE JG on the challenges of modeling this complex helo, I really had no idea and to think I actually purchased the software to tackle the project on my own!

        Just looking at John's Pavehawk version, would removing the small details improve poly count? I realize the standard for "AI" has now exceeded what passed for flyable models in the past, but adding the big parts like the IFR probe to the HH-60G would suffice for AI variant differences? Then I think about "Mike's Mad Modeling Shop" and the time he took to re-create each model of a particular subject, even if it is simply adding an antenna.
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        Re: AI BlackHawk

        Post by John Young »

        8311 polygons (mesh triangles) in the finished LOD1 model, including the slow and blurred duplicate parts:

        Image

        I'm not at all worried about the polygon count. I've built higher count models before and they have been fine. It wouldn't really be a Pave Hawk without all the little sticky out bits and I would prefer to leave them in. Compared to a single LOD, 44,000 polygon flyable Pave Hawk, my AI one will have 7 LODs and about 1/10 of the draw calls. The LODs will take out the detail progressively early on.

        I'd just like to include the casualty litter that is stored in the cabin, strapped against the two internal fuel tanks. I'll risk it for completeness I think.

        I could probably do a standard Black Hawk for about 7000 polygons (FS9 and FSX) if that would be useful.

        John

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        Re: AI BlackHawk

        Post by lewis »

        One very happy ex UH-60 crewchief here. :D :D :D Way to go John.
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        Re: AI BlackHawk

        Post by Garysb »

        Has it got al the XML bits in it John?

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