Thoughts on the next project

Previews, discussions and support for projects by John Young.
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Firebird »

Looking purely at Wikipedia it seems that package containment may well be your issue with the Badger. I say this even though I would love to see it, and the Bison, done.

The biggest issues I think are the two main roles. One being Recce/ELINT. The trouble with this role is that it invariably leads to different lumps on the aircraft. There are quite a few versions for this role.
The other issue is that in the bombing role it inevitably meant missiles for the Soviet fleet. There were quite a few different missiles involved and each versions seemingly carried a different load.

It maybe that you could get away with empty pylons for most to cut down on models. The reason being that I can't see that Soviet planes would routinely carry live or dummy missiles. Of course, if I am wrong about this then it throws this idea out of the window.
In an ideal world you could build all the missiles into each model and using hex coding you could show only what you wanted to.
The trouble is that when we looked at the idea for the F-16 it worked wonderfully well for FS9 but they seemingly either closed that loophole for FSX/P3D or altered the method - and I have been unable to find one for FSX/P3D.

John, if you were to do this I would advise that you only do 1 scheme per version and supply paintkits so that fleets could be built by painters. My guess is that the number of models will be quite large and so a reduction in schemes is going to be necessary for your sanity.
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by John Young »

Thanks Steve, we can cope with a reasonable number of models I think, it's the number of paints that worries me, unless I just make a few representative squadrons. As you say, users can work with a paint kit to make more.

What was also worrying me, until I checked it, is the length of the Bison and Badger. That's a potential problem for the mapping of the textures. To keep to one sheet I thought I would have to spilt the fuselage into two width segments so as to maintain a decent resolution. I really don't like splitting the airframe over two sheets because it can lead to "blurries". In fact, I was surprised to see from Wiki that both the Badger and the Bison are shorter than the KC-10A, 34.8m and 47.2m respectively compared to 55.35m for the KC-10A. The KC-10A resolution, on one sheet, is quite reasonable, so there shouldn't be a problem. Funny how you can be deceived. The Soviet bombers look much longer.

It looks like we have discovered another hole here that could usefully be filled. What I would appreciate help with is an audit of what Soviet aircraft and scenery we do have for each of the sim versions. If the suggestions here can be slotted into existing packages, that would make life a lot easier. I can then consider this project against what might be possible for the Meteors.

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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Firebird »

The Badger does look large until you look at the airliner derivatives - the Camel and the Cookpot. They look small - I think.
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Garysb »

There's two versions of the camel :)
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Jim »

John Young wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 04:54 Jim, they made 435 according to Wikki. Interesting project, but like the Meteor, where would you put them? Is there enough interest across 3 sim versions?

John
I'm delighted that you are even considering this John! Yeah, more than I thought but just two models: armed and not... probably since their manufacturing site quickly went over to the Su-15, and the longer range Tu-28/128 came along.

On your prompting, I've done a search and found at least 12 air defence regiments and their airfields (on http://www.ww2.dk/new/pvo/pvostrany.htm).

Most of the airfields can be found for FS9 in fairly basic form in regional packs on https://avsimrus.com/ Some of these ICAO codes are of course fictional...

174th 1965-82 at Monchegorsk, Murmansk (XLMG/ULMG).
641st 1964 at Besovets, Petrozavodsk (ULPB) (which has nice FSX scenery) then c.1972-1988 in the Arctic on Belushya Guba at Rogachevo (XLDR).
524th 1965-76 at Letneozerskiy, Arkhangelsk (XLAB).
82nd 1967-77 at Nasosnaya, Azerbaijan (UBBI).
171st 1967-75 at Bombora/Gudauta, Abkhazia (UG0U/UG23).
562nd 1965-87 at Krymsk, Krasnodar (XRKW).
738th 1965-82 at Zaporoshe-Mokroe, Ukraine (UKDE) which is also in Menno's Warsaw pack package.
529th 1968-82 at Ugolnye Kopi, now Anadyr Airport, Chukotka (UHMA) which in modern form is done by Dal Control for P3Dv4.4+.
528th 1967-81 at Smirnykh on Sakhalin island (----). I can't see any scenery for this one, so would need to knock up an afcad.
655th 1966-81 at Pyarnu, Estonia (EEPU) which is also in Menno's Warsaw pack package.
372nd 1966-81 at Daugavpils, Latvia (EVRD/EVDA).
892nd 1966-76 at Nivenskoye, Kaliningrad (UMWN/XMWN/UMKA).

If you are still interested, even just to see the last squadron at Rogachevo in '88 would be fantastic!

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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by John Young »

Thanks Jim, the idea is growing on me every time I see a favourable post. I'm knee deep in KC-10A painting at the moment, but I'll do some research on a potential "Russian" package when I get those done.

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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by gsnde »

This is maybe the time to share. Some of you know the nice people from the DDR Flugzeug Forum. They have provided me with the whole range of their (mostly) DDR bases to host them here at MAIW. They are all FS9, but if the authors credentials are given correctly, they might be converted to FSX/P3D. They will enrich the Eastern landscape for sure.


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Re: Thoughts on the next project

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Awesome stuff.
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by TheFoufure »

gsnde wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 12:40 Considering the Chinese clone Xian H-6 the Tu-16 is not even retro.

Since most of Mike P.‘s Eastern Block aircraft have been converted, I can imagine people have created bases to make use of them. And was it Giorgio who has made flight plans for the East?


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This acft is a good idea.

Exact for Chineese. And a lot of H-6 variant are still in production. A great adversary for US Navy Carriers in the region.
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Jim »

John Young wrote: 23 Jul 2021, 05:49 Thanks Jim, the idea is growing on me every time I see a favourable post. I'm knee deep in KC-10A painting at the moment, but I'll do some research on a potential "Russian" package when I get those done.

John

My fingers are crossed John.

For reference, I came across a few photos I hadn't seen before at http://www.easternorbat.com/html/10th_a ... 3_eng.html and http://www.easternorbat.com/html/82th_r ... 8_eng.html

Lots of detail here here from alternative simmers https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php? ... designing/ including within the "hidden comments".

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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by shaggy22 »

gsnde wrote: 23 Jul 2021, 06:21 This is maybe the time to share. Some of you know the nice people from the DDR Flugzeug Forum. They have provided me with the whole range of their (mostly) DDR bases to host them here at MAIW. They are all FS9, but if the authors credentials are given correctly, they might be converted to FSX/P3D. They will enrich the Eastern landscape for sure.


From mobile hence short
Funny you should mention those Martin, I've been converting those for personal use of late. Goes well with all that Soviet & NVA stuff I've been putting in recently
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Jim »

For reference, seven H-6 bases are listed here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... e_airbases

Apart from Luhe/Ma'an, Winfried Orthman has created basic FSX afcads for them.
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Jim »

For Soviet badgers Menno has some of the last of their air bases in his Warsaw Pack pack: Khvalynha, Zavitinsk, Zyabrovka(Gomel), Bila Tserkva.

From http://www.ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm , there were others :-)

5th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Veseloye, Crimean Oblast [45 34 41N, 34 16 45E]
1971 equipped with Tu-16K-10-26 (1st AE), Tu-16K-26 (2nd AE), Tu-16SPS (3rd AE) and Tu-16E (3rd AE).
Tu-16T/K-10 1956-94 (from 1987 elint versions only - 16 Tu-16SPS/E Nov'1990)

9th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Severomorsk-1, Murmansk Oblast, to 1971 [69 01 51N, 33 25 21E]
Ostrov, Pskov Oblast, 1971-74 [57 17 50N, 28 26 08E]
Tu-16 1956-74

12th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Transferred to navy then renamed (1961)...
12th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Ostrov, Pskov Oblast [57 17 51N, 28 26 03E]
Tu-16 1953-89
Tu-16K 1954-65
Tu-16K-16 1963-1989
Tu-16Z 1960s-80s

45th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Migalovo, Tver Oblast [56 49 44N, 35 45 14E]
Tu-16 1961-75
Tu-16K, 1961-75
Becoming 45th Training Aviation Regiment in 1975
Kustanay, Kustanay Oblast [53 12 28N, 63 33 06E]
Tu-16 1975-1980

52nd Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Shaikovka, Kaluga Oblast [54 13 31N, 34 22 20E]
1967 equiped with 3 squadrons (1st AE with Tu-16K-11 (KSR-1 missiles), 2nd AE with Tu-16K-16 (KSR-2

missiles), 3rd AE with Tu-16 elint/jammers).
Tu-16 1955-82 (from 1966 only in the 3rd AE with Tu-16 elint/jammers)
Tu-16K 1965-67 (1st and 2nd AE)
Tu-16K-16/11 1967-73 (1st and 2nd AE)
Tu-16K-26 1973-82 (1st and 2nd AE)

111th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Bobruisk, Mogilev Oblast [53 06 17N, 29 12 17E]
Tu-16 1956-71
Tu-16K-16 1964-71
Tu-16K-11 1967-71

124th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Gvardeskoye, Crimean Oblast [45 07 00N, 33 58 43E]
1957 - 12 Tu-16KS, 6 Tu-16Z, 1 Tu-16SPS,
1961 - 16 Tu-16KS, 6 Ty-16SPS, 6 Tu-16Z,
1980 - Tu-16K-10-26 (1st and 2nd AE), Tu-16Z (3rd AE) and Tu-16SPS (3rd AE).
Nov'90 - 19 total:
Tu-16 1956-93
Tu-16KS 1957-90

132nd Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Tartu, Estonia [58 24 08N, 26 49 19E]
1984 flew several missions of Afghanistan with 17 Tu-16.
1964 - 9 Tu-16 and 13 Tu-16K, 1991 - 17 Tu-16K:
Tu-16 1957-92
Tu-16K-16 1965-92
Tu-16K-11 1967-92

169th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Transferred to navy and renamed (1961)...
169th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Khorol, Primorskiy Kray to Dec'82 [44 27 02N, 132 07 24E]
Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam, Dec'82-Dec'93 [12 00 12N, 109 13 10E]
1984 - 1st AE: 10 Tu-16K-26, 2 Tu-16Z, 4 Tu-16SPS:
Tu-16 1957-89 (from 1982 only 1st squadron)
Tu-16K 1960-89 (from 1982 only 1st squadron)

170th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Bykhov, Mogilev Oblast [53 31 05N, 30 11 53E]
Tu-16 1956-59 (3rd squadron used Tu-16SPS to 1991)
Tu-16K-10 1959-76

173rd Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Migalovo, Tver Oblast [56 49 44N, 35 45 14E]
Tu-16 1961-75
Tu-16K, 1961-75

175th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Stryy, Lvov Oblast [49 14 35N, 23 47 30E]
Tu-16 1959 (tankers)

49th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Renamed (1971)...
183rd Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Knevichi, Primorskiy Kray [43 23 52N, 132 09 07E]
Tu-16 1959-91 [two AE with Tu-16K, and one AE with Tu-16 elint variants]

184th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Priluki, Chernigov Oblast [50 34 32N, 32 19 04E]
Tu-16 1955-88 (3rd squadron used Tu-16P to 1988)
Tu-16K-11/16 1963-84

185th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Poltava, Poltava Oblast [49 37 34N, 34 29 14E]
Tu-16 1955-74
Tu-16K-11/16 1963-74
Tu-16P 1960's-1992 (6 in 1991) based at Mary, Mary Oblast [37 37 23N, 61 53 45E] late 1988.
Taken over by Ukraine 1992.

199th Long-Range Reconnaissance Aviation Regiment
Nezhin, Chernigov Oblast [51 05 10N, 31 52 11E]
Tu-16R 1956-67

200th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Bobruisk, Mogilev Oblast [53 06 17N, 29 12 17E]
Tu-16 1955-86
Tu-16K 1964-92 (18 in 1991)

202nd Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Mirgorod, Poltava Oblast [49 55 58N, 33 38 30E]
Tu-16 1955-1961

203rd Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Baranovichi, Brest Oblast [53 05 51N, 26 02 50E]
Tu-16 1954-62

210th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Zyabrovka, Gomel Oblast [52 18 23N, 31 09 36E]
Tu-16 1955-65
Renamed (from 1962)...
210th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment

219th Long-Range Reconnaissance Aviation Regiment
Spassk-Dalniy (Khvalynka), Primorskiy Kray [44 36 42N, 132 53 27E]
Tu-16R 1957-94
Tu-16Z 1960's-94

226th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Poltava, Poltava Oblast [49 37 34N, 34 29 14E]
Tu-16 1955-67
Tu-16K 1967-69
Renamed...
226th Aviation Regiment for Electronic Warfare
Tu-16E/P 1969-1986

238th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Ozernoye, Zhitomir Oblast [50 09 44N, 28 44 10E]
Tu-16 1956-59

244th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Migalovo, Tver Oblast 1965 [56 49 44N, 35 45 14E]
Tu-16 1961-65
Tu-16K 1961-65

251st Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Belaya Tserkov, Kiev Oblast [49 47 43N, 30 01 43E]
1991 - 27 Tu-16K:
Tu-16 1956-92
Tu-16K 1968-92
Tu-16N 1960's-1992 (tankers - one squadron)
Dec'89 --> Renamed 251st Guards Instructor Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
by incorporating the 3rd Instructor Heavy Bomber Aviation Squadron which previously flew Tu-16 from

Dyagilevo, Ryazan Oblast c.1980.

260th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Stryy, Lvov Oblast [49 14 35N, 23 47 30E]
Tu-16 1960-80's
Tu-16K 1972-92 (23 in 1991)
Taken over by Ukraine 1992.

290th independent Long-Range Reconnaissance Aviation Regiment
Zyabrovka, Gomel Oblast [52 18 23N, 31 09 36E]
Tu-16R 1957-94 (13 in 1991)
Taken over by Belorussia from 1992.

291st Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Balbasovo, Vitebsk Oblast [54 26 21N, 30 17 58E]
Tu-16 1956-59

303rd Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Zavitinsk, Amur Oblast [50 11 27N, 129 30 13E]
Tu-16, 1956-94
Tu-16K 1972-94 [2 squadrons with Tu-16K, and the third squadron with Tu-16 elint versions]

342nd Aviation Regiment for Electronic Warfare
Ostrov, Pskov Oblast [57 17 50N, 28 26 08E]
Tu-16SPS 1978-89

402nd Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Balbasovo/Orscha, Vitebsk Oblast [54 26 21N, 30 17 58E]
Tu-16, 1954-79
Tu-16K-16 1962-67
Tu-16K-11 1967-79
Tu-16K-26 1979-83

444th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Vozdvizhenka, Primorskiy Kray [43 54 30N, 131 55 30E]
Tu-16 1956-91
Tu-16K 1975-91 [2 squadrons with Tu-16K, and the third squadron with Tu-16 elint versions]

568th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Mongokhto (Alekseyevka), Khabarovsk Kray [49 14 17N, 140 11 22E]
Tu-16 1957-92 [one AE with Tu-16K, one AE with Tu-16P/E elint versions and one AE with Tu-16Z tankers] [only

one AE from 1980 to 1992 with Tu-16SPS]

570th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Mongokhto (Alekseyevka), Khabarovsk Kray4 [49 14 17N, 140 11 22E]
Tu-16 1958-92 [two AE with Tu-16K, one AE with Tu-16P/E elint versions] [only one AE with Tu-16SPS from 1980

to 1992]

685th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Ostrov, Pskov Oblast [57 17 51N, 28 26 03E]
Tu-16K 1954-60

840th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Soltsy, Novgorod Oblast [58 08 16N, 30 19 47E]
Tu-16 1955-88 (3rd squadron used elint versions to 1988)
19 Tu-16K, 6 Tu-16 "Buket" and 3 Tu-16SPS in 1974:
Tu-16K-16 1964-72
Tu-16K-11 1968-72
Tu-16K-26 1970-77 (12 in 1976)

924th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Severomorsk-3, Murmansk Oblast, to 1965 [68 52 01N, 33 43 12E]
Olenegorsk (Olenya), Murmansk Oblast from 1965 [68 09 08N, 33 27 44E]
Tu-16 1957-80's
Tu-16K 1960-88
Tu-16P 1960's-91 (5 in 1990)

943rd Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Renamed (1961)...
943rd Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Oktyabrskoye, Crimean Oblast [45 19 14N, 34 06 08E]
Tu-16 1957-92 (6 Nov'90)

987th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment
Severomorsk-3, Murmansk Oblast [68 52 01N, 33 43 12E]
1990 - 29:
Tu-16 1957-93
Tu-16K 1959-93

1096th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Engels, Saratov Oblast [51 28 53N, 46 12 46E]
Tu-16, 1955-1960's

1225th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Belaya, Irkutsk Oblast [52 54 54N, 103 34 13E]
Tu-16 1958-82
Tu-16K 1961-82

1229th Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment
Belaya, Irkutsk Oblast [52 54 54N, 103 34 13E]
Tu-16 1957-82
Tu-16K 1960-82

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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by John Young »

Thanks Jim.

I can't recreate a retro Soviet Air Force and all it's bases, particularly for 3 sim versions, but I could start with a single aircraft subject and make a few models. I can then see what users do with them before potentially doing more. It would also give me the opportunity to test the availability and quality of plans and detailed reference photos to work from. I don't know what's possible with serial numbers, probably very little, but that might actually help.

I'll give it more thought, but right now, I want to get on with the KC-10A's and KC-46A's.

John
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Jim »

John Young wrote: 23 Jul 2021, 15:14 Thanks Jim.

I can't recreate a retro Soviet Air Force and all it's bases....

John
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by John Young »

I think that would take me 7-10 years Jim. I'm now wondering if the Soviet diversion is a wise move, but I don't need to decide while I'm still working on my current project.

John
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Jim »

I know. I was not quite serious. I just enjoyed scoping out the scale of the problem, since I discovered how to search a single web domain yesterday (e.g. site:ww2.dk Tu-16).
Maybe Badger fans can see something of particular interest in the list, or maybe present day H-6 would be more manageable: a mere 120 on Wiki :wink:

Jim
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Bora »

I think a lot of users would love to see the A-6 Intruder and EA-6 Prowler in the high standard quality that we are used to see from you John...

S-3 Viking and A-7/TAH-7 Corsair would also be nice...
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by TheFoufure »

Bora wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 11:32 I think a lot of users would love to see the A-6 Intruder and EA-6 Prowler in the high standard quality that we are used to see from you John...

S-3 Viking and A-7/TAH-7 Corsair would also be nice...
A-7 and TA-7 are already present and very good. And a lot of repaints and versions.

Check there : http://www.owlsnest.eu/aiaircraft_old.php


So A-6 / EA-6 and S-3 are welcom.
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Re: Thoughts on the next project

Post by Fokket50 »

S-3 Viking is already available.

The A-6 and EA-6 are most welcome, for something British I would suggest the Hawker Siddeley Andover
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