JYAI C-130J Specials

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by John Young » 03 Jun 2019, 05:45

Both the Hurlburt AFCAD and the Osprey aircraft.cfg file use "RAMP MIL COMBAT". It's perfectly valid and is the form that the AFX program uses to draw AFCADS, while ADE happens to use "RAMP_MIL_COMBAT".

Over and above that, the parking size and the parking code will force the Ospreys to their correct location. If you check the 8th SOS ramp on a Sunday afternoon, you will see all 8 Ospreys parked together. There is no problem.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Joseph29 » 03 Jun 2019, 06:42

Thanks John. I did not know there was a difference between AFX and ADE with the atc_parking_types= line wording.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Firebird » 03 Jun 2019, 10:22

Just to clear up any confusion here for others that may have similar questions, as this question does come up from time to time.

John is 100% correct in what he says, in that ADE and AFX have different designations. Also if you load an afcad up into either program it shows the type according to the current program and not the one that created the afcad.
Also if you check both AFX and ADE you will see that there are 11 types in both, as does Afcad, however, there are 5 subtypes that are just sized based of one of the main types.

If you look at the SDK you will see that in fact there are only 6 types that are recognised for the atc_parking_types parm :-
RAMP
CARGO
GATE
DOCK
MIL_CARGO
MIL_COMBAT

Everything else will be ignored. Now there may some people who assume that I am quoting the FS9 SDK here but in fact the list was cut and paste direct from the FSX SDK. I also checked the P3D online docs and found that the 6 are still the only ones supported.
Also AFX has not been updated for P3D so it would only use up to the FSX SDK.

So Joseph is correct that there could be a problem because the type is invalid however John is correct in that there is not a problem as he nailed down the size and atc_parking_codes to ensure that the aircraft are assigned correctly.

So in essence whereas parking spot size, type, code and order number can be used to decide where an aircraft goes in this case only code,size and order number are used as the type is invalid.
Again I should stress that it is invalid according to the sim and not either AFX or ADE.

So if you want maximum compatibility the atc_parking_type parm should be one of those 6 above and not what AFX or ADE designate in program. If you actually nail down the atc_parking_codes to be identical you will not have a problem at home bases. The only places you will have potential issues is when aircraft are away as there will be no codes to use and incorrect types so aircraft will be placed according to size and order only.

I think that I have covered this as completely as anyone can. So back now to normal service.
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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by John Young » 03 Jun 2019, 16:07

I'm just playing around setting up the new MC-130J's at Mildenhall. I'm using the V2 scenery from Tony Dalton with the replacement AFCAD and traffic files from my USAF Osprey package. My intention is to swap out the HTAI MC-130's with the new ones but retain the existing flight plans.

I know there was some discussion recently about the back track problem at Mildenhall and I think someone fixed that. I have to increase the size of the MC-130J parking spots to allow for the models with hoses and drogues. The question is, do I modify the AFCAD that's in the Osprey package, or is there a better one? If there is, may I have a copy to include in the Mildenhall MC-130J package after I re-size the MC-130J spots please?

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Trevytt2004 » 03 Jun 2019, 20:43

Hey there. The back tracking problem was Tony's runway has a million nodes all along it...on my version I removed all the normal nodes apart from the taxi turn off points near center and by the entrance to the herk ramp and the end where the special 135's go...

I haven't finished testing fully..i also adjusted the brakes and another cfg entry of particular aircraft to prevent them from stopping in stupidly short distances.

the end result so far is so much better

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Firebird » 03 Jun 2019, 20:56

John,
If I have got the wrong of the stick here please forgive me.

For FSX and P3D the size of the parking spot is decided by the wingspan in the aircraft.cfg so nothing needs to be changed for them, so we are only talking about the FS9 version.

If I am correct, then you do not need to change the spot size for the drogue and hose models as the hose and drogues don't take up any space on the ground. Just alter the size of the drogue mdl down to 21m to match the other versions.

I checked the EGUN afcad and found that the parking spots were 21.3m in radius so just using Martin's AIAE tool to alter the size will save you any other work.

Does this help?
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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by John Young » 04 Jun 2019, 06:02

Yes I am talking about FS9 Steve. I'm aware that I can alter the parking radius with Aircraft Editor, but it's not something I like to do. The reason is that during the course of making each model, I will probably compile it at least 50 times. I wouldn't want to reset the radius each time with AIAE because it adds too much time to the operation. I could make the change once the models are finalised, but I'm always making last minute changes that require a re-compile. There's a real danger that I will forget to reset the AIAE radius leaving the user unable to see the aircraft, at least where it should be parked. I'd rather use parking spots that reflect the true parameters of the model. I'm using 28M spots for the MC-130J flight line and they are working fine:

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The bigger dilemma are the flight plans. After a closer look, I can see that they take the 9 MC-130J's all over Europe and the Middle East. On most days of the week, only one or two of the aircraft can be seen at Mildenhall and the user would be extremely lucky to see them move. On a Sunday, 8 are present, but they have no movements programmed at all on that day, which is realistic I know, but boring.

So the dilemma is, do users want to see more of the MC-130J's at Mildenhall, with a greater degree of movement or is the preference to bump into the odd one in places like Iraq or Cyprus?

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Firebird » 04 Jun 2019, 06:58

Fair enough, John. I understand where exactly you are coming from on the mdl side of things. The desire to eliminate unnecessary errors is always upper most in the mind. I did think that I had to be missing some part of the picture.
I was looking at it from a consistency thing across afcad versions. What I mean is there would be no need for a 28m parking spot in FSX or P3D, to match FS9, and indeed could lead to other aircraft parking in those spots. Maybe I am over thinking it here.

I know what you mean about getting the mix of flight plans correct. In reality there are probably more movements in our plans than in reality and there are more landaways than in reality. Getting a balance can be a tricky thing.

I think that in the early days I used to prefer more movements and landaways but as the amount of Mil traffic increased exponentially on my system I started to see unnecessary conflicts and I now prefer more realistic movement numbers and less landaways.
So my preference here would be more Moldyhole based traffic with the odd one dispersed to an operational area, rather than a an unnatural general dispersal.
If there is a complete motionless flightline on Sundays I wouldn't have an issue with that, as it would be real.
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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by John Young » 04 Jun 2019, 08:55

That's my feeling too. With aircraft diminishing in number too over the years, they don't really want to be hidden from view with long overseas flight times and distant, dispersed deployments. I also find 1 week flight plans complex to follow, at least in text form.

I'll see what I can do with Mildenhall with a mix of local and European flights. Sunday remains a day of rest.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by DaleRFU » 04 Jun 2019, 10:04

I agree with Steve, I prefer the more realistic approach since as you say we now have so many types and schemes for AI. At least if you plan in FSX and P3D you have flightplans over multiple weeks so you can have land aways or "exercises" etc. Everyone is different and it probably depends a lot on where people fly around as to what they wish to see.
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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by ahs06 » 04 Jun 2019, 11:45

The USAF normally doesn't deploy an entire squadron at one time. AMC cargo units normally send four planes and will combine with another squadron to create an expeditionary squadron.

ACC fighter units will be similar but may do a split deployment where each unit contributes half the compliment of aircraft and one squadron flies the mixed fleet deployed and the other squadron stays home and they do a manpower swap at the halfway point. Each unit keeps enough airframes for thier alert mission at home but extra airframes will go to the unit not deployed.
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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Victory103 » 05 Jun 2019, 18:41

Download stats are crazy, I do try to point new mil AI users to this site, as it is the ONLY site. Off a work trip and find the Hercs in the d/l section, kind of like coming back to a restaurant table to find your food waiting! Hard to hold off for the Matrix update.
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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Greg » 06 Jun 2019, 18:19

Adding to Steve's excellent explanation about parking types, here's a bit from Reggie Fields I have saved somewhere and always helps me to understand why something doesn't park where I expect if parking code and size are not the issue:

The first type comes from the Aircraft/Simulation Objects SDK and is what you put in the aircraft.cfg. The following types come from the BGLComp SDK and is what ADE/AFX/AFCAD compile (note that AFX and AFCAD have their own hacked BGL Compiler which is why they don't always follow SDK naming convention, but for this discussion they all do the same job). Never place a type from the BGLComp SDK in an aircraft.cfg.

GATE means GATE_HEAVY, GATE_MEDIUM, GATE_SMALL in no priority (size/radius is what's important)

DOCK means DOCK_GA

CARGO means RAMP_CARGO - then all the other ramp types in no priority, then Gate or Dock or None in no priority - size again the overwhelming factor

MIL_CARGO means RAMP_MIL_CARGO - then all other ramp types in no priority, then the other types

MIL_COMBAT means RAMP_MIL_COMBAT - then all the other ramps types in no priority, then the other types

RAMP means all the ramp types in no priority. If the parking spots are equal size, an aircraft with RAMP in the ATC_PARKING_TYPES= line will park in a RAMP_MIL_CARGO or RAMP_CARGO spot over a RAMP_GA spot if it is higher up the list of parking spots.

AI aircraft will be assigned to FUEL parking spots if their size matches the spot size.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by John Young » 08 Jun 2019, 06:58

The MC-130J/Hs at Kadena and the KC-130J's with Harvest Hawks at Iwakuni, have been uploaded this morning to replace the previous HTAI models:

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With Brent's upload of the new C-130J-30s in his revised Yokota scenery this morning and his Kanoya scenery yesterday, this completes the new C-130's for Japan.

As always, please give Greg a chance to make the uploads available.

Mins has asked me to package his paints for the Republic of Korea C-130J-30's at Gimhae, so I'll do that next. Steve and I have been working on the flight plans for Mildenhall so the MC-130J's there will follow after that.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by jetrange » 08 Jun 2019, 23:46

Good Evening,

I'm just curious, but are only the Marine Hercs at Iwakuni planned to be released, or are the US-based squadrons being released as well? This is not a request, just a question. Thank you.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Joseph29 » 09 Jun 2019, 01:37

Thank you for the new C-130 stuff (and the updated Japanese stuff). In the Yokota readme file it say that the C-12J is the FS9 model, and you don't know of a 1900C that has been converted.

Here is a link to the 1900 that has been converted by the guys at AIG. https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/inde ... ic=26276.0

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by John Young » 09 Jun 2019, 06:04

jetrange wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 23:46

I'm just curious, but are only the Marine Hercs at Iwakuni planned to be released, or are the US-based squadrons being released as well? This is not a request, just a question. Thank you.
It was never my intention to produce every C-130 there is, rather to provide a selection of models, including some generic ones and a comprehensive paint kit for others to use as they wish. I could tie myself up painting C-130's for the next year or so otherwise. Not only that, the extra aircraft would require scenery and flight plans for all 3 sim versions. I really don't want to go any further down that route. That's not to say that packages won't pop up from time to time. Brent is very good at that, but I'm not aware of any plans he has at the moment.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by DaleRFU » 09 Jun 2019, 08:52

Thank you very much John and Co. Very nice indeed.
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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by John Young » 10 Jun 2019, 08:41

Mins has asked me to package and upload his repaints of my C-130J_30 in the colours of The Republic of Korea Air Force. 4 such aircraft are based at Gimhae, along with Boeing Peace Eagles. Flight plans are included as are links to some Gimhae scenery.

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This is a single package for all 3 sim versions. The aircraft can be combined with the previously released C-130J-30's if users wish.

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Re: JYAI C-130J Specials

Post by Joseph29 » 10 Jun 2019, 10:34

Does anyone know if the FSX scenery for Gimhae will work in P3D? I can't look now because I am going to work soon.

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