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JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Previews, discussions and support for projects by John Young.
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TimC340
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by TimC340 »

Firebird wrote: 17 Dec 2019, 11:42 Tim,
Try the simple process of creating an exclude for the FSX version. Create an exclude for the whole airfield and make sure that you at least exclude default buildings. That should clear the decks for you.
HI Steve. I already had excludes for the whole area. The issue turned out to be that I had the airfield at 33ft to fit in with the Orbx England scenery in P3D4, and of course it's at 55ft in the vanilla sim. Nevertheless, I was surprised that the process of deleting the stock airfield appears not to have worked as well as it might! Also, disappointingly (but perhaps not surprisingly) the Dominies and Jetstreams I have working in P3Dv4 do not work in FSX. I won't lose any sleep over that; I'm sure FSX users will have their own aircraft libraries they can use.

Anyway, it now seems to be working fine in FSX - I will let it run and check that civilian traffic does actually avoid it. The only aspect I'd like still to tackle is the 22/202Sqn Sea King parking and traffic - which is probably easier to achieve in FSX than P3D4. I just need some details of their parking spots.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by John Young »

Henk, thanks ever so much for the additional serial number pages. I've spent a few hours this afternoon extracting what I need and cross checking with what I had already. That's now given me the total paints I need to do for the airfields I have in mind for a date in time roughly 1989/90:

Linton-on-Ouse: 32 T3A's + 17 T.5's = 49
Church Fenton: 28 T3A's + 12 T.5's = 40
Cranwell: 40 T5's
Finningley: 18 T.5B's
Brawdy: 3 T.4's
Boscombe Down: 1 T.5

That's 151 paints, but I'd better check first what parking exists at the first 3 airfields.

John
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by ado4567 »

is it going to be for fs2004 because I still use that
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by John Young »

Yes indeed, FS9, FSX and P3Dv4.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by sp762 »

Hi John,

I just bough David Watkins’ book on the JP/Strikemaster. In the annex there’s a complete list of the allocations of every airframe (as far as I can see.). Is that any use to you?
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by John Young »

Thanks for that. I have the RAF ones, but the serials for the Strikemasters would be very useful. I only have the New Zealand ones at the moment.

Let me know if you need my e-mail address to send them.

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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by sp762 »

Ok, I’ll photograph them today, and send you a Dropbox link.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by John Young »

I don't need them right at the moment, but if anyone knows or comes across the calls signs for RAF Jet Provost operations during the late 80's early 90's that would be really useful. I need them for:

1 FTS at Linton-on-Ouse
6 FTS at Finningley
7 FTS at Church Fenton
RAF College Cranwell
79(R) Sqn (TWU) at Brawdy
ETPS at Boscombe Down

Failing that I could just use "Provost" to keep the traffic off the GA slider.

I watched a few episodes of the BBC "Fighter Pilot" series on You Tube to see if that would reveal anything, but alas it did not.

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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by sp762 »

In 1981, 1FTS was using "FOXTROT" according to the book of that series.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by Firebird »

During my time in the mob (76-84) the RAF standard was for a random trigraph allocated to each individual station and was changed every two weeks.
We didn't have an awful lot of Training Command aircraft stop at CGY and WTM but they operated the same way. If you went that way I would suggest a trigraph that would stand for the home base so that the user would know where they came from eg. CWL for Cranwell.

Towards the end of that period we tried to confuse the Russians by switching to each sqn having a set number of permanently allocated callsigns allocated to use at random but was generally only used (by AD sqns) if they had a 4-ship.

The standard ETPS callsign is/was TESTER.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by John Young »

Thanks Steve, I understand ETPS and "TESTER". So if I picked "CWL" for Cranwell, or say "CFN" for Church Fenton how would Editvoicepack annunciate that, assuming users wanted audible call signs?

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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by Firebird »

I am not sure. I think that if there is nothing in EVP specifically then if the callsign is in capitals then it will say it phonetically. I am pretty sure that I have had that in game but I couldn't swear to it.

I would check but as I slowly rebuild my PC FS9 is the one thing that absolutely refuses to run, and the FS9 installation is still intact.
So I am not much help at the moment.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by shaggy22 »

John Young wrote: 20 Dec 2019, 17:16 Thanks Steve, I understand ETPS and "TESTER". So if I picked "CWL" for Cranwell, or say "CFN" for Church Fenton how would Editvoicepack annunciate that, assuming users wanted audible call signs?

John
In EVPX you can programme it to say it however you like, that's a fairly simple process to be fair. Don't know about FS9 but I think it's the same
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by TimC340 »

Sorry Steve, but I disagree. Well, slightly! The trigraph callsigns were essentially for operational traffic. In fact, I think they were one of the first manifestations of computer-generated stuff in the RAF!

For local sorties, FTSs used simple Alpha/Bravo etc callsigns, with a two-number ID for QFIs (each had his own callsign) and three-number for solo students. At Linton, 1 Sqn was Alpha, 2 was Bravo, etc. At some point around the early 80s, the prefix ‘Tyro’ began to be used by students on early solo sorties.

Trigraphs were, however, used for low-level training sorties that entered the U.K. low flying system. That was (IIRC) so that every aircraft in the system had a unique ID and booking number. Before the days of the U.K. being one giant low-flying playground (which started around 1980), the UKLFS was complex and very restricted.

Formation callsigns were specific to each FTS (and even each Sqn within the FTS). Sadly, I can’t remember any of the JP ones. when I became a QFI on Bulldogs in 1987, our YUAS formation callsigns were all to do with dogs - ‘Fido’, etc. Of course, the checkin was ‘woof’; ‘woof woof’; ‘woof woof woof’!!
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by TimC340 »

Just to add, at Finningley in the 80s all local sorties by JPs Jetstreams and Bulldogs, and staff continuation training on the Dominies, had the prefix ’Foxtrot’. My own callsign was F73, I seem to remember - YUAS had 10 QFIs and our callsigns ran from 70 to 79. I can’t remember what numbers the other units used, I’m afraid.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by Firebird »

Thats fine, Tim.
My experience was for fast jet stations which only had the occasional trainer in. As I said trigraphs were our standard but I am sure that others used them when visiting or they would have stuck out to me. As far as i can recall all my trips were trigraphs with the exception being the BBMF which had the visionary 'Chippy' and 'Lanc' callsigns.

The BBMF flight numbers identified the Pilot whereas the OCU, 29 and 41 were allocated number blocks for the trigraphs. The same system was used at Wattisham when 23 was there with us, and we stuck to the same block when they departed. 74 just took over their block later on. Because the standard sqn had a block of 20 numbers it was quite common to work around the block twice especially in summer when we had to fly late to get night hours in.

You had far more experience than myself of that area so I would go with your specific recollections.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by TimC340 »

I was with BBMF for a little while, though it was winter and very little flying occurred. Yes, their call signs weren’t very imaginative - and they haven’t changed. But I guess they’re unique, so they do the job. I’m trying to wrack my brain for more gen about the trigraph system, but it’s not happening just now. I know it was abandoned around the end of the Cold War, but that’s about it. I’ll stick a post on our internal forum and see if I can get some more detailed info from those with better memories than mine!
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by VulcanDriver »

Firebird wrote: 20 Dec 2019, 18:31 I am not sure. I think that if there is nothing in EVP specifically then if the callsign is in capitals then it will say it phonetically. I am pretty sure that I have had that in game but I couldn't swear to it.

I would check but as I slowly rebuild my PC FS9 is the one thing that absolutely refuses to run, and the FS9 installation is still intact.
So I am not much help at the moment.
Steve you're right. I made a callsign QRA but Editvoice pack said it phonetically.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by Firebird »

Phew. I didn't want to be inaccurate twice in one day.

One other thing I remember regarding trigraphs was that the idea was to keep the Russians (sorry, Orange forces) guessing about the number of squadrons we had and where. Hence why the trigraphs were allocated from Strike, I think, every two weeks in a signal,

I do know that on occasion the RAF Police would sit outside the base and listen to transmissions to see if they could figure out anything of the strength of the base. I remember that I saw a report whilst at WTM where they reported that there were two sqns codenamed 'Apart' and 'Basil' as these were the stud 10 callsigns for the Sqn Ops. They worked out that 56 were Apart and 23 were Basil due to the aircraft movements coinciding with the markings that took off after stud 10 chatter.

We never did change that system though.
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Re: JYAI Jet Provost and Strikemaster

Post by TimC340 »

You’re bringing back memories now, Steve. Remember authentication tables? On a Taceval or Maxeval at Lyneham in around 1980, we ended the exercise with what should have been a simulated survival scramble. That meant we started up and taxied all the serviceable aircraft to the end of the runway, as though we were going to get airborne. The expected instruction to call off the scramble was queried with an ‘authenticate’ by the lead captain. ATC got the authentication wrong, so several C130s got airborne. It took several hours to get everyone back down on the ground. The subsequent happy hour was riotous!
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