General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post all questions and problems with official MAIW Conversion Packages for FSX and P3D in this forum. Each package has a dedicated thread for support.
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Greg
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General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Greg » 10 Apr 2018, 19:00

Use this topic to post general issues with Military AI Works official conversion packages that ARE NOT specific to any one package.

The packages can be found here.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by TimC340 » 14 Apr 2018, 17:04

I don't know if others have this problem, but on attempting to extract the Zip files for the modified P3Dv4-compatible F16 and C130, I get this error message: 0x8001010135: Path too long. It appears to be related to the length of some individual aircrafts' titles. I'm using Win10 v1709, 64-bit. The extract path is simply within the Download folder on the C drive, which has plenty of available space.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by airplanedoktor » 14 Apr 2018, 17:34


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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Greg » 14 Apr 2018, 22:20

Indeed, it's the same issue as reported in the C-130 thread.

We had a bunch of packages lined-up for release, but we're redoing all of them due these path length issues.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by TimC340 » 15 Apr 2018, 17:40

Ah, thanks chaps. I've applied the 'T' fix and that worked!

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by pennkiwi » 25 Apr 2018, 22:20

I have two questions to ask:
1. Will there be any FSX models to follow those that are purely for P3D4? Unfortunately, because of a graphics tweak to get rid of some very annoying problems, I can only use FSX native models in FSX-SE.
2. Is there a single location where one can go to find other FSX converted models? Occasionally in a thread I will see a reference to an FSX model (e.g. KC135) but I have no idea where to get it
Thanks
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Greg » 26 Apr 2018, 08:44

Hi Ian,
pennkiwi wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 22:20
1. Will there be any FSX models to follow those that are purely for P3D4? Unfortunately, because of a graphics tweak to get rid of some very annoying problems, I can only use FSX native models in FSX-SE.
I understand this is important to you, but with that question you underestimate the huge amount of work there is involved in these conversions. As Gavin explained elsewhere, it's not a simple matter of recompiling the model with the FSX compiler. We have to look at where we spend our very limited resources and I'm afraid that one user with graphics issues wouldn't be enough reason to divert our workflow. I hope you understand.
pennkiwi wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 22:20
2. Is there a single location where one can go to find other FSX converted models? Occasionally in a thread I will see a reference to an FSX model (e.g. KC135) but I have no idea where to get it
There is one for civvie model types on the Alpha India Group forums, but we don't have one for pure military types. We'll see if one of us can create such a post if we have time.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by pennkiwi » 27 Apr 2018, 03:27

Hi Greg
Thanks for the quick response. You're right of course that I don't have any personal experience of the work required to do the conversions, but I hope you've noted elsewhere in the forums that I have expressed gratitude to the team that has done the work which I realize has been enormous. If I could contribute in any way to that work, I would gladly do so...

But I would like to challenge your characterization of me as "one user with graphics issues." I only stated that as an explanation for why using existing FS9 models isn't an option for me any longer, unless I restore my installation to default settings and just tolerate the black rectangles and other oddities.

But the point I was trying to make, and I obviously did a lousy job, was that an FSX native model can be used in FSX, FSX-SE, and all P3D versions and would therefore meet the needs of the majority of users. If P3D4 only models become the norm, then a lot of us using other platforms are going to be left behind.

I'm not trying to be a PITA Greg - I admire and appreciate all the wonderful contributions the entire MAIW team have made to our hobby over the years and I would never want to be seen as criticizing or complaining about the work you all have done for us. I'm just trying to make a case for focusing the conversions on FSX native models where possible, that can be used across numerous FS platforms, rather than models that can only be used in one.

I hope that helps clarify what I was asking consideration of
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Firebird » 27 Apr 2018, 09:52

What you say makes sense, Ian.
However, as a non-believer in FSX (still FS9), I have just had a look at our library and there are currently no models in the P3Dv4 category and 61 in the FSX. So which model is causing you stress at the moment?

Also, purely from an interest and knowledge point of view what is the problem that you had and what is the graphics tweak that you made? Is it a graphics card issue? Could you explain for me please. I really am interested.

I don't think that you have done what you have done without exploring other options but it seems a bit like with some of our FS9 packages people would say that such and such scenery has issues with something else that they have installed. What Greg is trying to get across is that we have always provided any add-ons based upon a vanilla system and can't possibly take into account every users individual setup.

I have been trying to keep up with what is going on with the conversions but I can't say that I have my finger firmly on the pulse as I am not directly involved.
If a model is P3Dv4 only then there must be something that is the model uses that was not available before that version. So my question would be what is it, and why can't there be an FSX version?
The sort of thing that I can think of is JYs V-22 where FSX doesn't allow for the same pre-flight animations that FS9 did and so he couldn't convert all of the mdls.

It comes down to what each developer does. We don't control them, which is why they are so productive.
I guess it all comes down to these questions?
1. Why is there an P3Dv4 version?
2. What will it take to produce an FSX version?
3. What will you lose in the FSX version?

For a P3Dv4 model you wouldn't be the only one missing out, anybody with FSX, or P3Dv1-3 would also be.

What Greg can't give is a guarantee that there will be an FSX version of a model, that is different to saying that there won't be an FSX version.
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by hschuit » 27 Apr 2018, 10:31

Steve, on top of what you already mentioned there is another reason why some models are converted to P3Dv4 only: P3Dv4 allows for materials to be conditional based on scripting, think of a night light map which only shows at night time. I know AIG uses P3Dv4 scripting and I believe Gavin has used it also for some of his conversion projects.

Henk.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Firebird » 27 Apr 2018, 11:25

That is the sort of thing, Henk.
This is one of the new features P3Dv4 brings which may be taken advantage of.

That is the first question answered, so that leaves the next two questions. Like most things these answers will be different on a case by case basis.
In this case, what would a developer need to do to make an FSX and early P3D version and what would that version be missing?
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by hschuit » 27 Apr 2018, 11:30

Steve, to convert a native P3Dv4 model with scripting to FSX, you need to replace the scripted materials with conditional model parts. These new model parts need to created in a 3d modelling app like Blender, GMax etc (1). If an aircraft has many variants with different light maps (e.g. C-130 Hercules), that will be a daunting task.
Native P3Dv4 models without scripting can easily be converted to FSX without loosing features.

(1) FS9 materials use light map textures to simulate night lighting effects (e.g. windows, slime lights). These light maps do not work in FSX, this is why you need to create conditional model parts to replace the light map functionality. In P3Dv4, light maps can still be used by scripting the material.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Firebird » 27 Apr 2018, 11:43

Thanks for that.

So we can see from that explanation that for this particular feature it then comes down to effort involved on the part of the developer.

Personally, I would like to see FSX conversions that will therefore be able to be used in every platform followed by a v4 modification to take advantage of the v4 features. I am hoping that developers also see it this way.

I know this might slow things down but everybody would be able to use the new models straight away. It is not like there is a deadline that says all work on every model must be completed by xxxx or you can't use them any more.

It maybe that it would be better to have a second production line where FSX models are converted into v4 models by one or two people only concentrating on that aspect.

We shall see what happens.
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by pennkiwi » 27 Apr 2018, 19:09

First of all, thank you to all who have replied and given me a much better understanding of the issues involved. I'm especially grateful for the positive tone of the replies and that I wasn't being perceived as a whiner making a selfish request. I have always admired and respected the many talented people on this site who have contributed to our hobby and would never even consider criticizing the amazing gifts they have made to the community. Over the years I've made an effort to contact many of them personally to let them know how thankful I was - John Young and Michael Pearson especially may remember those conversations...
Now to answer some questions:
1. I don't use FSX but FSX-SE, which I always describe as "what FSX should have been if Microsoft hadn't rushed it into release before it was ready" and if they had listened to what the FS community was saying. I was a beta tester for FS9 and know how long it took to get it right before it was released - and we all know how successful it has been.
2. The graphic problem I was having isn't uncommon as I found a number of posts about it on AVSIM as well as the solution, which I will give verbatim: "Go to the ShadersHLSL folder in your ROOT Flight Simulator X directory, and locate a folder called Common, inside that folder you will find a file called Common.fhx (make a backup of that file so you keep the original) and change the following line:
CODE
dword State_TextureWrap : STATE_TEXTUREWRAP = D3DTADDRESS_WRAP;
to look like this:
CODE
dword State_TextureWrap : STATE_TEXTUREWRAP = 0;
after doing the change, you need to DELETE the shader cache located in C:\Users\YOURUSERNAME\AppData\Local\Microsoft\FSX (just delete the folder called shaders) and then restart FSX. you'll never have a corrupted texture problem ever again..."

The problem had been the sudden appearance of large black rectangles in the distance that would eventually resolve themselves into runway lights or nav lights on AI aircraft or other effects that I no longer remember. All I can say was that the fix was a true "game changer" for me as the rectangles were really intruding into the "immersion" and "willing suspension of disbelief" that makes the difference between "playing on the computer" and "flying." But then I began to notice that a lot of my AI was no longer showing up and I traced it to whether or not the model was FS9 or FSX native. I then had to choose between going back to the default settings and putting up with the rectangles or patiently replacing as many of my AI models with FSX native ones wherever I could find them. When the F16/P3/C130 conversions were released I was in military AI heaven, and when the new conversions came out I was ecstatic. But then I found that the C-17 and AN26 models could only be used in P3D4 and my fear is that this will become the norm for future conversions.

So all I was trying to do was raise awareness that exclusive P3D4 models will limit the number of users who will be able to utilize the conversions yet to come, whereas FSX native models can be used by all of us, including P3D4. I know that P3D4 is a superior platform but there are many of us who don't have the money or in my case, being an old dog (72) with limited abilities to "learn new tricks," who will be sticking with our current versions, at least for the next few years.

So my plea is that if possible, the conversions be FSX native so we can all enjoy them. But I know that each developer is a volunteer giving huge amounts of time and talent freely to the community and they have the right to choose which platform their models are for. I'm just hoping to influence some of them for future conversions that FSX native would reach a lot more users than exclusively P3D4
Cheers
Ian
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Firebird » 28 Apr 2018, 07:53

I am interested in the graphics issue, so as I understand it it is a DirectX thing. So which version of DirectX do you use and do you use that preview option on and/or the Scenery Fixer.

I am curious as to why you are getting it, as the majority of users are not affected so it would seem that some combination of conditions you have set is causing it.
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by pennkiwi » 28 Apr 2018, 18:38

Hi Steve
I don't use DirectX. I tried it when I first started using FSX-SE but I couldn't get it to work. I think you are probably right, as I've been doing some searching on the forums at AVSIM and found discussions about that very thing. My problem is that although I'm a very experienced flight sim pilot (12 years as RW Airline pilot - started simming with FS98) I'm not great when it comes to understanding the more esoteric aspects of hardware etc. (I'm 72 so can claim the excuse of "old age" LOL).... If I had some clear directions and someone willing to work through the process with me, I'd be willing to give it another shot as it would probably solve this issue plus I've heard it also enhances some of the visuals in the sim
Cheers
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Firebird » 28 Apr 2018, 19:28

Hi Ian,
You don't get to chose to use DirectX. It is part of the OS. The game calls it internally. MS created it as graphics and sound firmware that sits between the OS and the hardware.

FS9 only used DirectX 9. FSX used DirectX 9 by default but also has a DirectX 10 preview mode, as it was preparing for Vista to be released.
DirectX 9 was part of XP, DX10 was for Vista with an upgrade to DX11 available, DX11 was for Win7. DX12 is for Win 10.

If you were to run dxdiag from either your run command or search tool it would tell you what version you have and if there are any problems with it.
Anything that starts D3D means Direct3D which is part of DirectX.

So you can see that if you had the DX10 preview option switched on but were running XP you would have problems. DirectX is backwards compatible so it doesn't matter if you are running Win 10 and have DX12.

Hopefully I have explained it in a way that everybody can understand it.
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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by jimrodger » 29 Apr 2018, 08:50

Very much a newbie regarding P3d v4 and after reading the A400 installation instructions (honest) and after a fair bit of investigation, I'm still confused as to the correct way to carry them out regarding the creating a "Military-AI" folder section.

The "make folders known to your simulator....." is the specific bit I'm struggling with.


Any help would be gratefully accepted.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by pietsteens » 23 May 2018, 18:54

I don t know how, but I'm able to use a lot of official MAIW FS9 packages in my FSX-SE, WITHOUT CONVERTING ANYTHING !
Just installed packages like Nellis , Luke, SHeppard, Pensacola, Miramar, Corpus Christi and a lot more, manually, incl. the traffic.bgl.
So far no problems and all are working fine. Moreover I have of lot of WOAI packages installed (the FSX ones) and it all seems to work together without any problem.

The only problem I have sofar is that the Talons-38 have a black canopy, so if I can find a solution ( or maybe you kmow it) for that,
I 'm most happy.

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Re: General MAIW Conversion Package issues

Post by Greg » 23 May 2018, 19:21

Yes indeed most FS9 aircraft models work perfectly fine in FSX except some minor issues here and there such as opaque canopies. If they didn't, we wouldn't have waited 10 years since the release of FSX to start converting the models. ;)

The FSX models in these conversion packages will give you slightly better frame rates in FSX but they are not strictly required. The real reason for these conversions is P3Dv4, which broke backwards compatibility with FS9 models.

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