Military AI Works

NO BREXIT HERE PLEASE!!!!

STAY WITH US!!!!!

Giorgio

No problem bismark, we will still talk and work with our friends on the continent of Europe and around the world. We are just fed up with the clowns in Brussels and the money they waste, such as the regular migration
between Brussels and Strasbourg, whats that all about other than wasting time and money.
Regards,
Steve

The EU was meant to be a free trade alliance, expanded to allow labor to cross borders. That makes sense. Who the hell ever imagined it was a bright idea to transform that specific function into a big central government? This was bound to happen, gang, it wasn't sustainable. Honestly I cannot believe this has gone on as long as it has.

Yup. That is why I voted to leave. I was happy with the joining of the EEC, Common Market, but what it has evolved into is something different. I can't believe that other countries haven't gone 'woah, hold your horses there'.
My guess is that there will be a few others that will at the very least call for votes. I hear the Swedes and the Dutch are most likely.

My guess is that we will end up back as we came in, as a trade partner. Me thinks a lot more countries would like that as well.

What I find most strange is that Jocks want to be independent but ruled from Brussels. A contradiction there which I find hard to explain. As for their calls for another independence referendum that isn't going to happen until after we leave, if at all. Which means by EU law they have to be independent for at least 5 years before they can apply to join.
Good luck with that one guys.

As a footnote this means that the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar also leave. The Spanish are best described as 'not pleased' about the second bit.

One theme that holds true everywhere is big government feels a need to keep getting just a little bit bigger. Pretty soon a good idea grows into something it wasn't intended to be.

Good thing you guys never went to the Euro!

Oh and thanks for tanking our markets today!

MIKE JG wrote:Oh and thanks for tanking our markets today!

Hey, no problem.

BBC reported that Spain wants joint sovereignty over Gibraltar. 2000 jobs gone at Morgan Stanley as they pulling out of London. Farage (UKIP leader) said that the slogan stating that the NHS was to get £350m per week saved by leaving the EU was a "mistake", but a mistake many voters believed. Wonder what the electoral Commission would make of that as I firmly believe it influenced the floating voter.

In other news Donald Trump visited his Scottish Golf Course (where some Scots had raised the Mexican Flag,) and put his foot in it by saying that the people of the UK have "taken back their country" Scotland voted unanimously to Remain in the EU.

My worst nightmare is Trump in the Whitehouse and Boris Johnson in No10 even if the do look like they were separated at birth!!

VulcanDriver wrote:In other news Donald Trump visited his Scottish Golf Course (where some Scots had raised the Mexican Flag,) and put his foot in it by saying that the people of the UK have "taken back their country" Scotland voted unanimously to Remain in the EU.

Well Scotland are part of the UK and the UK did vote to take back its powers.
Whereas it is true that every constituency in Scotland voted to remain the result was 60-40 in favour to remain. Not what I would call unanimous.

Get a load of us lot having a civilized political discussion.

VulcanDriver wrote: My worst nightmare is Trump in the Whitehouse and Boris Johnson in No10 even if the do look like they were separated at birth!!

Mine too!

To stick my two penny worth in...
My current passport says "European Union" and " United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", a situation that I was quite happy with. It means that I am free to travel for leisure or work and can indeed decide to live in anywhere covered by that description. This is something that has been of great value to me and to my employers (I am now retired). More importantly my children have travelled, studied and worked in Europe.
Looking at the demographics of the votes it looks like the elderly have just deprived our young people of a whole range of priviliges.
God (not that I'm a believer) knows what might happen in Ireland if we end up with a hard border between North and South.
To get back to aviation - as the F-35, P-8 and Atlas are all deals agreed in Dollars or Euros these projects are all now more expensive and possibly likely to be cut if the Pound fails to recover on the currency markets.
On that happy note a rather drunk (French wine whilst I can still afford it) good night.

John D.

I think of all the projects the P-8 will be the safest. The reason being that something will need to patrol our waters to keep pesky EU fishing vessels outside of UK waters - and who knows maybe even the Scots.

On the exit side of things everybody will be coming up with potential scenarios on various different aspects over the coming months but the simple truth is that nobody knows the answers, or even some of the questions.
In my opinion this will not change until some rules/protocols/procedures/dates are set. Only then will things start to calm down and this is why although we announced that nothing will be officially kicked off for a few months unofficial discussions and decisions will start to be made almost immediately.

One of the things I found interesting yesterday was the difference in statements and temperament yesterday. Individual governments were one of shock, surprise and the need to come to terms with it all whilst the EU org was one of f**k off now as you didn't really seem to want to belong anyway and we will try to use you as an example to prevent others from leaving.
My feeling is that this attitude is the EUs biggest problem. I think the org is unaccountable to its members. I think it is serving it's own self-interest. A group of individuals from several nations have become so powerful that they can tell nations what they can and can't do and I think that is why a lot of people across Europe are uneasy about it.

Time will tell whether it adapts and becomes accountable or whether it tries to become more of a constrictor.
I hope that the individual nations reassert control.

I for one would love to see the F-35B cancelled its a heap of crap but I agree with Steve we need a Nimrod replacement even more now. The UK had a defence agreement with France to cooperate at sea signed when Cameron was PM in 2010 I guess thats been torn up now!!

And as I have Irish heritage I'm going to try and get an Irish Passport so I can still travel in Europe freely!

I may be wrong, but if the defence agreement with France is bilateral and unaffected by our EU status.

It's so refreshing to see the civilized, friendly tone of this thread; much of the actual debate was really ugly.,

Jon G

Jon,
You would be right about that agreement. It is not affected unless both parties cancel it.

You are right about the nature of the discussion here. Says a lot about the members here.

On John's point about the F-35B, I would agree with him. Normally I am a person that would like to see our military get the latest and greatest mil hardware but there is just something so underwhelming about the F-35. Normally a new gen aircraft you get loads of hype but not so much with this machine. You get some cheer leaders but none seem that convincing to me.

After saying all that, having seen the decision to go back to the F-35B because the cost of converting the carriers to CTOL was seen as too prohibitive says to me that if we want carriers we are stuck with the F-35B no matter what we want until at least a midlife update of the carriers.

There was talk of selling one of the carriers as a CTOL varient to France as it was 98% compatible with their PA2 concept. The French cancelled PA2 in 2013. The UK thinking was that we cannot operate both carriers at the same time and we could cover the cost of remaining one.

I agree with Steve we should have stayed with CTOL as we could have a bigger choice in carrier aircraft plus cross decking with the USN

There's a lot of innocent bystanders watching from the sidelines here, probably why this will stay a civil conversation. Most of us do not have a dog in the fight nor do we have sufficient knowledge of the issue to even speak about it.

There is an interesting speech that Sir Winston Churchill gave in Zurich in 1946 that seems strangely appropriate today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln4SRnt4VE0

Nice find, Mike. very interesting.

On the number of people directly affected by the result you may be right but the internet being what it is this has never stopped people starting an argument for it's own sake. We have all seen it in various forums.

The simple truth is that nobody before or since the vote knows exactly what will happen economically. For example, an interesting fact that I found out during the campaign was that 20% of Germany's exports are to the UK. Is Germany now going to allow the EU to harm that business by severely penalizing Britain for leaving?

The world has changed since the original introduction of the European Common Market. It is a global economy these days with events affecting all countries whether inside a trading block or not. In recent months we have had the Brexit question causing ripples worldwide. Before that the Canadian oil refinery incident, before that the Chinese stock market problems, and before that the Greek economy issues. These are just the biggest issues in the last 12 months and affected all economies.

Now I am not saying that the British people knew or figured this out and therefore dismissed this as an issue. Normally what happens in a national vote is that people say before hand that they will vote for what they feel is right but at the last minute a sizeable chunk will change their vote to what they think will make them better off personally. I don't believe that the majority of leave voters thought that they would be better off financially in the short term.
This time the majority seemingly voted for more control.

I am sure that learned people will dissect the various aspects of the voting in the next year. I am also sure that it will take 20 years before learned people can make a judgement on whether it was overall a good move or a bad move for Britain and the knock on implications for everybody else.

I do think that it maybe the biggest political change the world has seen since the break up of the Soviet Union.

Just a thought, politicians now have to abide by the will of the people, not their own interests!


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