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Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

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tpackage
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Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

Looked through the forums of multiple sites, read lots of different tutorials. Each tutorial and forum offer different hints that help. My problem is that I am having trouble getting my landing gear to retract after compiling the model. I have made one other one with no problems, but can't find where things have gone wrong. Going over my notes, I have even tried starting from scratch on all my animations on the aircraft, with no success. This was because at one point, the more I tried to fix things, the worse my animation problems got. So I have the propellers working fine, and are the last animations on the list, ( one of the hints I had read ). Maybe this post will help others that may be trying to build models, and getting frustrated using FSDS for FSX. My gear issues: I have made sure to have a parent part ( invisible ), I start with the gear in the up position, Y coordinate reset to default up position, I have simplified the gear parts ( as it is an AI aircraft, not looking for great detail ), so I have tire and gear doors as a child of the gear leg. ( There are no animations of the tire to cure other issues with tires disappearing as they turn, and the gear doors simply disappear into the body of the wing or fuselage as the gear come up ).... before saving aircraft for compiling, I make sure my animations are set to " 0* ". Also I have keyframes set at 0, 100 and 200. ( though I do not have a compressing gear, I still set the keyframe for 200 ) ... When I go to FSX, the props turn, shut down fine, but the landing gear will not retract when a panel is added, and the gear handle is selected.... Like I said, this isn't my first airplane model for FSX, but it certainly is giving me trouble like it is, and just need another set of eyes I guess to show me what I may have overlooked. Perhaps it's a parts labeling issue with my tires and gear doors ? I use the
standard FSX keyframe animation part label for the gear legs.
Thanks to anyone that can add input, that may have some information that I missed.
-Todd
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John Young
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

I don't know how you do it in FSDS Todd, but in Gmax for FSX, you need to attach an animation tag for "c_gear", "l_Gear" etc. The name of the part can be anything you like, hence the tag. I guess though that you know how to do that because your props would have animation and visibility tags applied and they are working.

I'm not sure why a dummy part is needed. It's not needed in Gmax. Gear is indeed up at KF:0 as you said.

So, gear up to start, part name + animation KF:0-100 (KF0-200 if compression) + animation tag = success (or should be).

John
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

Thank you for your reply John. I use a dummy part, because I was having issues with the animated parts moving to unusual areas after compiling. So almost all tutorials I have read said that in FSX every part that is animated must be attached to a non moving parent part.... So like in my prop animations, I have a stationary prop spinner which is the parent part to the prop still, prop slow, and my prop fast aft disk, and I have a forward prop disk that is a child of the rear disk... That seems to work just fine for my prop animations, as long as I verify the Y coordinate is pointing straight up. What is frustrating is the animations work just fine in FSDS at each keystroke, but are locked down in FSX. My Beech V35 Bonanza seems to work just fine, I haven't uploaded it to AVSIM yet, but can be found in the forums over at AIG. I started making planes for FS9, but converted to FSX when my hard drive crashed, and I couldn't get FS9 to work on the new computer. So I started redoing my whole computer to FSX, which I had owned for a couple years, but never installed. I would like to make a lot more planes for GA, but I have to get this gear animation down. Otherwise I am stuck to just projects like my Cirrus SR22 I released, or now I am putting together an Ercoupe. Trying to duplicate planes I see at the airports I fly at in the real world.
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

There is no need to attach an FSX animated part to another one unless the parent part is part of the animation, eg a tire is attached to the gear leg so that it retracts with the leg. My gear legs are not normally attached to anything. That's for Gmax, but I'm not sure why FSDS would be different.

You didn't mention tagging in your response. This is vital in FSX if you are using an FSX native compiler (part of the SDK). I can show you how that works in Gmax, but I assume there is something similar in FSDS.

First off, unlike FS9, the part name has no meaning in FSX - you can call any part whatever you like so long as it's unique. In the example below I have a nose leg with a pair of still tires. The tires are one animated part and are a child of the gear leg:

Image

The gear leg movement is animated from KF:0 (up) to KF:100 (down). I'm ignoring compression for this example.

The tires are animated in the same way except for a 360 degree rotation and there would of course be another set for the blurred part.

Alas, FSX won't respond to any of this until some tags are applied to trigger the animation. I've shown the Gmax animation dialogue screen that is set up for the gear leg. You need to find "c_gear" from the drop down list, specify the KF range, then apply it to the part.

The tires also need an animation tag in the same way, but because they need to switch between the still and blurred parts, they also need a visibility tag from the attachment tool. This is illustrated on the left. Props are enabled in the same way.

Tags are required on all moving parts and they are a real pain to do. Quite why Microsoft did this for FSX is beyond me. It's very tedious and you have to concentrate all the time or you might easily apply the wrong tag. The animation tags don't clone from one LOD to the next so you have to go through the exercise in each LOD. For that reason it's best to flight test each LOD separately to ensure the tags are right.

Just to complicate things further, the pivot points in FSX are in different directions to FS9. That shouldn't matter for the gear, but it does matter for tires. If you use FS9 directions your tires are likely to rotate sideways.

Two things to do I think - explore animation tagging in FSDS and try changing the pivot directions on your gear legs.

John
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

Thank you again John for taking the time to put together your response. I'm sorry I didn't mention the animation tagging. FSDS has a dropdown menu similar to your animation list with FSX animation tags....c_gear, l_gear, and r_gear. I mentioned the prop animations, but didn't get into the gear ones in my first response. While you also mentioned pivot directions, I know I had trouble with that in the past with that. I couldn't figure out why the gear were not coming down, then noticed rather than coming down they were coming out the top of the wing. This got me to figure out the importance of the Y coordinate and how it affects the pivot direction. I am going to try your suggestion about not needing to parent an animated part to a still part, to see if that makes a difference. But it seems like in the past when I did that, the gear showed up in places other than the location they were modeled in. ( Like they would appear 10 feet out in front of the aircraft ). I agree making models for FS9 is much simpler, that's why at least for now, I am trying to keep my animations to a minimum, until I get more confidence in what I am doing, and that my notes are accurate in what works and what doesn't work.

Todd
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

Try a very basic gear animation Todd - just a stick with the pivot at the top and see if you can get it to lower and retract in FSX. I've never had a case of the gear appearing other than where it should by not using a dummy part. Remember dummy parts add to the draw calls and that's a factor in performance, so avoid them if you can.

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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

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I tried removing the parent part from the animated parts, and everything shifted all over the place. I admit, I did not try to see if I could re-animate them, and see if they would stay in place yet. I did get another suggestion from someone else that I should investigate the CFG file because there may be a couple of lines in there that are locking the gear as fixed. So I will be looking into both of those items. I did find another tip on the FSDS forums, that suggests that a parent part is always required on an animated part, and that the " Axis rotations must match from the hierarchy node parent part". I noticed mine were off a ways on a couple of the gear legs. Having corrected this issue, it did not change the end result. I will continue to try all suggestions, until I get it figured out.
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

It was not anything to do with the CFG file.
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

Todd, just so I'm clear how you are doing this. The gear leg itself has no animation or tags applied. The leg is linked to the parent cube (dummy). The dummy is animated KF0-100 and is tagged with "c_gear", "l_gear" or "r_gear". Is that right?

Image

That arrangement would work in Gmax too, but the dummy is totally unnecessary. If you animate like this in FSDS what happens?

If the animation is all in the gear leg and not in the dummy, the leg isn't going to move.

John
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

I have gone over my animations in both my V35 Bonanza which is animating properly, and my Piper Apache which isn't animating properly.
1) Both have a non-animated (invisible) part labeled "c_gear.1, l_gear.1, r_gear.1 " all are copies of gear leg in the up position, which I know is probably not needed to be done that way, but that is how the FSDS forums suggested it be done because it helps
with alignment of the X,Y,Z coordinates.
2) Both have animated gear legs labeled "c_gear, l_gear, r_gear " from the FSX keyframe animation list drop down menu
3) Both have keyframes at 0* up, 100* down, and 200* down
4) Both have tires and gear doors linked to the gear leg. ( but for right now, the tires are not animated and the gear doors are more for looks parked on the ramp, than proper animation sequence )
5) The only difference I can find between the two models, is when I compile each of them, the Apache says it has a list of material textures that are not on the texture list and will be added. Some of the parts I used have default textures added, and I have
removed these, to apply fresh textures tied to the main bmp, and have changed in the part properties these material textures to default ( main bmp ).... When I compile my Bonanza, even though some of the basic parts are shared between the two models, I do not get that message at compiling. I don't see where this would affect the animation portion, but is the only difference I can notice. I am leaning towards this being where the problem is though, because I know in FSX every part requires a texture applied, or funny things happen. I just don't understand this list, because I only have two texture files in my texture folder. ( The Main Bmp and the Prop Bmp with Alpha Channel ) So my next step may be to go ahead and make some new parts to be sure there aren't any default material textures applied to them. Even though what doesn't make sense is I have deleted any materials in the part properties, all say default, except for the prop. ( And that comes from the FSDS forums, because of the transparency factor I believe ) Like I said previously, the props are animating just fine, with proper transparency at full speed, slow prop, and on down to shut down.

About ready to try my hand at using GMAX instead, seems like once you have a basic understanding of modeling, GMAX has far less glitches and headaches. I would only recommend FSDS for beginners, where the models are limited to fixed gear and a simple prop animation, and probably best suited to FS9 only.

I can't thank you enough John for your input, as it helps me to reassure I am doing the animations properly, just not finding the one thing that is causing the glitch, which is stopping me from making more complex General Aviation AI aircraft for FSX. I know Henry Tomkiewicz used FSDS to make his FS9 models, and I wonder if he ran into the same issues that I am having to give up like he did.
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

I don't think it has anything to do with textures Todd. I always set up my animations in the un-mapped model, just so I know they work before I paint them. I really don't understand why you need copies of animated parts, never mind dummies. Does every part, including the copies have a unique name? A duplication would certainly cause a problem.

Simple gear legs should be a doddle. I know Mike Pearson had a huge amount of trouble trying to build FSX models with FSDS but I don't know what he did eventually.

I can certainly help with Gmax if you decide to try that route. The bit most people find difficult to fathom is texture mapping, but I've done it so many times now, it's just second nature now.

John
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

That's what is so frustrating, I don't have to map the model, and it works just fine in the FSDS program.... Even with it textured, it works just fine....But compile it, and install it in FSX, and I have no gear animation. As far as the dummy parts, I don't understand the need for that either, other than I have read in multiple places that it's required, or the animated parts float all over the place, which I have seen this as well...It looks fine in FSDS, but as soon as you install the model in FSX, animated parts are all over the place. Even in the instructions that come from FSDS, it says that every animated part must be linked to a parent part and something about that parent part and it's coordinates. So as in my props are linked to the spinner, I would love to just link the gear to the wings or fuselage, I have found that doesn't work when it comes to gear animation...Thus the dummy part suggestions in tutorials.
To answer your other question, every part is labeled with a unique name. Even if it's just a matter of adding a ".1 " to the name to make it unique. As far as texture mapping, I just recently started getting into that part myself....Because the few models I have created were more for my own use, I wasn't too worried about correct mapping, as long as the textures I applied looked right. If it didn't, I just didn't use that particular paint scheme. But as I have gotten more involved in making better models, I have learned a little bit more about things I can do to make sure almost any paint texture applied will look acceptable to those who might want to use it.
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

People think Gmax is hard to learn Todd, but FSDS for FSX just seems crazy by comparison. To animate a gear leg in Gmax, you make the leg, call it what you like, put the pivot point at the top, animate it KF:0-100, tag it, compile it and see it work in FSX. Nothing more complicated than that. You only link sub parts of the gear assembly so they travel with the leg.

The FS9 FSDS designers here will know all about gear legs. I wonder if they can spot the problem you are having? The process should be the same apart from the tagging.

John
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

I agree, FSDS works great for FS9, but just seems like it's not well suited for FSX.
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

I'll gladly teach you Gmax for FSX if you want to go that way Todd.

John
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by Weescotty »

Quote - " I start with the gear in the up position, Y coordinate reset to default up position"

Y coordinate? or should that be axis?
Wouldn't gear normally be Z or X rotation depending on extension method fwd/back or inboard/ouboard?
Unless they are like a Herc main gear?
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

I am leaning towards it more and more John. I worked with it before, but found FSDS easier, but that was when I was still using FS9.

As far as the Y Coordinate, or axis. It was just the easy way of explaining that the " Y " axis/coordinate must be reset to default up, or you could just as easily say the " Z " axis /coordinate must be reset to forward in order for the animations to work properly in
FSX. At least that's what I have discovered in my own experience and tutorial forums from those using FSDS for FSX. It has nothing to do with the direction of the rotation of the part. I can rotate the part any direction I want, as long as I reset the axis prior to animating the part. Since all gear animations in FSX start with 0* and the gear in the up position. One must realize that wings are not flat, they have dihedral, which means that the gear is angled in the wing ( or in my case is angled to fit properly in the nose section). If you don't reset the direction of the axis, and leave it at that angle, the gear won't animate properly in FSDS, and won't work at all in FSX. That advice might not be true for GMAX, but I wouldn't know. I just know FSX is very finicky about certain things when it comes to animations....WAY MORE than FS9.. When using FSDS 3.5.1
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by tpackage »

I had to try one more time, making a whole new aircraft with animated gear to figure it out. It turned out to be a number on a line in the cfg file that was messing me up. I had the animation parts put together correctly all along. Thanks for all the assistance everyone, and the patience. Back to making more models for FSX
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Re: Help with FSX gear animation in FSDS 3.5

Post by John Young »

Great that you stuck with it Todd. It's usually a misplaced "," or a "." that usually screws things up for me.

John
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