A brand new MS Flight Simulator is coming...

[rocket_26_]

It's not just Amazon, the feedback I've read over the past few days is pretty mixed wherever you go. The thing about Amazon is that it's extremely popular and often the first point of call for an on-line purchase, or a review of an intended purchase. That feedback is not really going to help stimulate purchases from whatever source it's subsequently made.

More fundamentally, I don't think users should be required to spend £110 to act as beta testers for a half finished product that is already handicapped with a huge download and a seller that is swamped with queries.

FS2020 may be perfectly fine, but there are better ways to launch a product.

John

I agree the feedback is consistent across the board. What I was getting at is those numbers you were showing for amazon were indicating poor sales which is not true. It has had huge sales so far sadly with a faulty product.

[Manschy]

I don't know why MS embarrasses all you developers by cutting the ongoing evolution of sims of the last decade? Each sim was a smooth improvement by keeping the possibility to also improve existing aircraft / sceneries without destroying it at all!
Was this heavy break by designing so many complete new engine stuff really needed to create this brandnew sim? Or was it simply a bad try to expel all 3rd party designers? So many fantastic aircraft, sceneries and AI now are dead at this moment!
And even if some ambitious heros are able to "repair" this mess (rocket_26, thumbs up with Coningsby...), I can't do anything useful with it landing only a Cessna, Bonanza or 747. It will take years to get back all your valuable stuff in this sim.
Cutting all previously used parts of models or programmes is a betrayal to all the developers. As matters now stand, MSFS is a pure arcade game to me. Good for kids or gamer who are blinded by the graphics, bad for all real simmers or developers.
Fingers crossed that you don't loose your euphory and motivation to fill this suspect sim again with true life....

[rocket_26_]

I don't know why MS embarrasses all you developers by cutting the ongoing evolution of sims of the last decade? Each sim was a smooth improvement by keeping the possibility to also improve existing aircraft / sceneries without destroying it at all!
Was this heavy break by designing so many complete new engine stuff really needed to create this brandnew sim? Or was it simply a bad try to expel all 3rd party designers? So many fantastic aircraft, sceneries and AI now are dead at this moment!
And even if some ambitious heros are able to "repair" this mess (rocket_26, thumbs up with Coningsby...), I can't do anything useful with it landing only a Cessna, Bonanza or 747. It will take years to get back all your valuable stuff in this sim.
Cutting all previously used parts of models or programmes is a betrayal to all the developers. As matters now stand, MSFS is a pure arcade game to me. Good for kids or gamer who are blinded by the graphics, bad for all real simmers or developers.
Fingers crossed that you don't loose your euphory and motivation to fill this suspect sim again with true life....

Unfortunately I think most payware developers will now stop developing for P3D and focus solely on this sim.

P3D V4/5 is a fantastic sim and just what was needed to replace fs9/fsX. I will still use it as military is what I am interested in.

I work for a payware developer part time, I know the sales have slumped since this sim was announced and I have heard the same is for many other developers so they will likely put all there time into this it just will take a while due to different way of working.

Manfred scenery is actually quite easy to do once you have get to grips with it, I am sure someone with you expertise would have no problem. This sim was started with the original FSX code as a base. I can import all my 3D models, parking files, ground polys etc all which use the same co-ordinates etc as before. Just a little tweaking XML files.

[Firebird]

Quote removed due to NDA

In which case it is shoddy.

I know that it will in the end cost MS nothing. People will still buy it in droves and MS will fix things as they go along. I really, really don't like the fact people are paying to be beta testers. I know the reason for it but the software gets tainted by peoples bad first impressions.

[danhult]

As a project manager involved in projects with a significant amount of software development, I would like to offer a different perspective. A lot has changed in how software is developed since FSX came out. Back then, Agile was still relatively new and DevOps wasn't thought of yet, so Waterfall was still prevalent. That meant nothing was released until everything was ready, so we were used to a sim being "mature" and ready to begin modifying from day one. While this is an elegant theory, in practice it has proven ineffective for software development. A more effective strategy in most cases is to release the Minimum Viable Product as quickly as possible then iteratively improve it over time. While I haven't been following the development closely, this seems to be the strategy the MSFS team is following. I have been playing around with MSFS for the past few days and have been overall happy. Yes, there are many bugs present and expected features absent, but this is to be expected in a Minimum Viable Product. While in its present state it falls far short of our expectations from a modification and legacy compatibility standpoint, it is important to remember that we are not the primary audience. For the casual to semi-serious simmer not looking to modify anything, MSFS delivers on its promise, so while it may seem like a premature release for us, it is adequate for the majority of the sim audience. Iterative releases will fix the bugs we are seeing and add the features that are missing. Since this is the strategy, I doubt this week has been as chaotic for the MSFS team as it appears from the outside. Many of the issues we are seeing are probably already in the backlog, properly prioritized, and targeted for future releases. Thus, we need to be patient and trust that we will get the fixes, additional features, and answers to our burning questions in time. In the meantime, I'm certainly not uninstalling FSX, as I have invested far too much time and energy in it.

[rocket_26_]

Quote removed due to NDA

I cant speak for whether it is realistic or not.

[TimC340]

I cant speak for whether it is realistic or not.

I can. It isn't. I'm sure that can be fixed.

Manfred scenery is actually quite easy to do once you have get to grips with it, I am sure someone with you expertise would have no problem. This sim was started with the original FSX code as a base. I can import all my 3D models, parking files, ground polys etc all which use the same co-ordinates etc as before. Just a little tweaking XML files.

The methodology of doing this is not at all obvious, and I think many of us would be grateful for some guidance on how to achieve it. I've seen some clues on FSDev, but it's not - yet - collated into a comprehensive guide.

[TimC340]

The methodology of doing this is not at all obvious, and I think many of us would be grateful for some guidance on how to achieve it. I've seen some clues on FSDev, but it's not - yet - collated into a comprehensive guide.

Correction - it is now being collated. See here for the work-in-progress guide.

[Greg]

Remember Alpha/Beta is still under NDA. I know that it helps placing things into perspective, but if we ever wanted a good working relationship with Asobo/Microsoft in the future I think we should keep this forum clean and only discuss the current state of the sim.

Edit: after a chat with the poster, any inside information from Alpha/Beta was removed. It's not that we're a big fan of the NDA but MAIW has always respected a developer's wishes.

[Manschy]

Manfred scenery is actually quite easy to do once you have get to grips with it, I am sure someone with you expertise would have no problem. This sim was started with the original FSX code as a base. I can import all my 3D models, parking files, ground polys etc all which use the same co-ordinates etc as before. Just a little tweaking XML files.

Thank you for commendation. But even if we are able to convert them into MSFS, to me the more important part is the aircraft. We all are fans of military aircraft and sceneries here, so this unexpected release without any useable SDK (unfinished???) is robbing our opportunity to enjoy the new sim like our passion...as soon as the other users at least...

[Weescotty]

Maybe we should all sponsor Arno from FSDeveloper and see if he can do anything with MCX?
I'm definately steering clear at the moment, its almost sounds like the release Windows 10 all over again.
Only difference is you could still get the overwhelming majority of your old software to work.

Do they actually believe that us 3rd party devs who do this for free are going to hock a kidney, lung and various other body parts for 3ds Max?
It is almost as if they are deliberately trying to drive 3rd party devs out.

Could end up with more free stuff for P3D than FS2020!

[Tuskin38]

Do they actually believe that us 3rd party devs who do this for free are going to hock a kidney, lung and various other body parts for 3ds Max?

There is a community made plugin for Blender apparently.

I've been having a ton of fun in the sim, I haven't found an real major issues with it. Currently using it via gamepass, but I will be buying the standard edition eventually.

[Manschy]

We have to seperate two groups of sim users currently:
On the one hand those users who are indifferent to everything legacy at all, happy flying the default aircraft. Furthermore the simmers waiting patiently for the upcoming PMDG 737 or comparable aircraft with a lot of system details.
Those who have only one fixed aircraft they like to fly with - i. e. Cessna, PMDG 737 etc. The sim is the surrounding need for their aircraft. It's the set, like in the film. It has to work and it has to run. No more, no less....
On the other hand the people who will be part of making this film, creating the sets (sceneries), the staff (the aircraft and AI...).
And the simmers who want, who need the variety. Here the military friends, there the vintage lovers, the heli fans. How about them?

[TimC340]

Maybe we should all sponsor Arno from FSDeveloper and see if he can do anything with MCX?
I'm definately steering clear at the moment, its almost sounds like the release Windows 10 all over again.
Only difference is you could still get the overwhelming majority of your old software to work.

Do they actually believe that us 3rd party devs who do this for free are going to hock a kidney, lung and various other body parts for 3ds Max?
It is almost as if they are deliberately trying to drive 3rd party devs out.

Could end up with more free stuff for P3D than FS2020!

Arno has said that he will make MCX compatible with FS20 if he can. And Jon is working to create a version of ADE for FS20 as well. As Tuskin says, there is an exporter plugin for Blender 2.83 to allow that program to be used for FS20 object creation. Some developers have stated that some FSX/P3D aircraft can be ported to FS20, but as yet there's no clear guidance about how that can be done. I've no doubt it will appear before long.

[TimC340]

People are now beginning to have some success - limited at present - in converting FSX aircraft. This thread in the MSFS SDK forum shows some of the results, though as yet no-one has revealed a great deal about how they've done it.

Edit - you may need to be registered for the MSFS forums to be able to read the thread.

[Victory103]

Watching the vids and reading up on the conversion now. I'm here for the military side of things to include obviously the AI, but with MSFS and the Bing mapping leaving out military airfields I'll continue to wait. I have a few of the DC Designs models now in P3D, but they designed for the casual simmer compared to the VRS Super Bug/Tacpack. The lack of anything rotary hurts.

[SeanG]

Well... so far I am a fan... I've flown a few short flights around random places and I am pretty impressed. I've got FSUIPC7 Beta running, and talking to my random apps. I've 'played' with some of the SDK tools, and been reading a lot.

I am looking forward to getting some of my models into the sim to see what they look like

SeanG

[gavinc]

I've been working with some of the folks from AIG to investigate migrating AI into MSFS.
The short answer is that it is possible to import FSX models (not P3D) into MSFS and get them to display. The long answer is that it is complicated (you need to write json package scripts, you need 1 model folder per texture folder, etc), it is buggy, and until the SDK is complete we aren't sure if what is being done at the moment will be supported moving forward.

On the up side the fsx traffic BGLs seem to be supported.

Gavin

[Woogey]

You and me both. Not to mention no fast jets to fly yet. I just am developing for 2020 for now and will start using it when more stuff is available.

Ian, you don’t know how happy I am to hear that you are already WIP on multiple sceneries. Dare I say that your work is some of, if not THE best military airbase scenery available today. With the DC Designs F-15 series, SWS T-2C, and Dino’s multiple projects coming soon, we will have a few mil jets available before the end of the year. Keep up the great work!

-Preston

[Tranquil]

I have to say im really enjoying this sim at the moment..




















Much thanks

Mark