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KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Share hints and tricks or your own modifications for MAIW Packages in Flight Simulator X and Prepar3D.
texxasal
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KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by texxasal »

My apologies for contributing to the cluttered state of these forums, but I have despaired in searching for a remedy, among the 162003 posts spread across 16702 topics.

I have the excellent package: MAIW Whidbey Island Growlers_Desmond Burrell, which runs quite well in my FSX/ACC installation.

When I attempt to load the scenery into my Prepar3D V5.3 simulator, the vast majority of the "objects" don't appear. What I'm looking for is a way to convert those objects following the forum thread which provides instructions, they don't convert. I would suspect that, if I can get get the file: Whidbey Object Library.BGL converted to Prepar3D V5, the buildings, facilities, and features will appear.

Any help in getting this resolved is most appreciated. I am an "airplane piloting guy", not a "Scenery guy"

Thanks
Al Rosenberg
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prepar3D V5.3 MAIW KNUW by Desmond Burrell as delivered.jpg
FSX-ACC -  MAIW KNUW by Desmond Burrell as delivered.jpg
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TimC340
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by TimC340 »

Looks like you're using the FS9 KNUW, which will work in FSX but won't in P3D. You can't convert to P3Dv5 objects (as yet). You can, however, convert them to P3Dv4.4 format, which is normally acceptable to v5.

To do that you need the freeware program ModelConvertorX (available here). It's a complex bit of kit, able to do all sorts of amazing things, but the process of converting a scenery library is easy.

Import the Whidbey Object Library.bgl file into the program. After a short delay, you'll see the objects in that Library in the blue display area. You can scroll trough them if you want to see what's in the library, but there's no need to. Just go to the Export Scenery tab, click on it and you'll get a 'save as' dialogue. Choose the type 'P3D v4.4 BGL File (*.bgl)', Before you save, consider changing the name to something like 'Whidbey Object Library P3D.bgl so that it doesn't overwrite the original (the P3D version won't work in FSX). Make sure the Scenery folder for the P3Dv5 installation of KNUW only contains the new library. That's it.

You'll also probably need the MAIW Global Objects FSX Library to get some of the other objects used in the scenery, and you may have to go through the same process with the libraries therein, but it's worth trying without doing that.

If you are indeed using the FS9 version, there are quite a few files in it that aren't used by P3D. I would reformat the whole thing in ADE for P3Dv5, but you'll probably find it'll work without going to those lengths.

If, on the other hand, you ever downloaded Matrix for P3Dv4, all of the work has been done for you already. Unfortunately, if you don't have that collection, it's no longer available to download at MAIW (or anywhere else).
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by pslinger »

A quick question about ModelConverterX,I'm sorry if I missed this in the Users Manual, what is the difference using the Export Scenery tab and the Batch Convert Wizard? I'm unclear which one to use and in what situations and the difference between the two. Thanks.
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by TimC340 »

Export Scenery allows you to export single scenery files (which may include several buildings or groups of buildings) in various formats, such as bgls for Flight Sim use, or .dae for 3D CAD program use. The batch convertor allows you to make specific adjustments to files or textures. Those adjustments are described reasonably well in the Operator button. The writer button then outputs the altered file in whatever format you need.

It's a 'wizard', so it basically replaces several separate operations available in MCX by a single batch command in the hope that the result achieves what you want. I don't often have a use for it, but as I get more familiar with MCX I may do in future. FSDeveloper forums are the best place to get info on the program, as the website is run by MCX's author, Arno. He is extremely good at explaining the program and troubleshooting the inevitable problems that come from the use of such a complex tool.
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by TimC340 »

texxasal wrote: 20 May 2022, 21:36 My apologies for contributing to the cluttered state of these forums, but I have despaired in searching for a remedy, among the 162003 posts spread across 16702 topics.

I have the excellent package: MAIW Whidbey Island Growlers_Desmond Burrell, which runs quite well in my FSX/ACC installation.

When I attempt to load the scenery into my Prepar3D V5.3 simulator, the vast majority of the "objects" don't appear. What I'm looking for is a way to convert those objects following the forum thread which provides instructions, they don't convert. I would suspect that, if I can get get the file: Whidbey Object Library.BGL converted to Prepar3D V5, the buildings, facilities, and features will appear.

Any help in getting this resolved is most appreciated. I am an "airplane piloting guy", not a "Scenery guy"

Thanks
Al Rosenberg
This is the Burrell/Stinstrom KNUW in P3Dv5.3 after conversion as I described, plus the addition of a CVX polygon (the airfield background) in ADE. I didn't spend too much time on it, so don't give me a hard time about the inaccurate boundary!

Image
texxasal
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by texxasal »

TimC340 wrote: 21 May 2022, 16:05
texxasal wrote: 20 May 2022, 21:36 My apologies for contributing to the cluttered state of these forums, but I have despaired in searching for a remedy, among the 162003 posts spread across 16702 topics.

I have the excellent package: MAIW Whidbey Island Growlers_Desmond Burrell, which runs quite well in my FSX/ACC installation.

When I attempt to load the scenery into my Prepar3D V5.3 simulator, the vast majority of the "objects" don't appear. What I'm looking for is a way to convert those objects following the forum thread which provides instructions, they don't convert. I would suspect that, if I can get get the file: Whidbey Object Library.BGL converted to Prepar3D V5, the buildings, facilities, and features will appear.

Any help in getting this resolved is most appreciated. I am an "airplane piloting guy", not a "Scenery guy"

Thanks
Al Rosenberg
This is the Burrell/Stinstrom KNUW in P3Dv5.3 after conversion as I described, plus the addition of a CVX polygon (the airfield background) in ADE. I didn't spend too much time on it, so don't give me a hard time about the inaccurate boundary!

Image
This is what I'm trying to get too, but not having much luck with modelconverterx 1.6.0.0. is there some way you could put up a converted copy of the Whidbey Object Library.BGL that I can access, and at least see what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks
Al Rosenberg
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by Firebird »

Al,
Lets start with basic stuff. Do you have the P3D SDK installed? If so, have you set up MCX to use it?
If the answer to either of those is no then that would explain why you are unable to convert the lib.
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TimC340
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by TimC340 »

Al, I’m afraid I don’t believe I can share the converted library with you. The accepted protocol is that specific permission must be granted by the author of FS items for any alterations, and that’s taken to include updating the format for later sims. I have updated many Stinstrom airfields (with alterations to reflect real-world changes and using better photoreal backgrounds), but John has left the FS environment and it’s not possible to obtain permission any more.

As I understand it, MAIW did get permission from him to update several airfields to P3Dv4 format for the Matrix product, but (contrary to my earlier statement) KNUW appears not to be one of them. I believe that discussions are ongoing about whether those sceneries can morally be released individually to the Download Hangar. Once that debate is resolved, it may be possible for me and others to contribute our updates for public consumption.

All that said, I have had tacit approval to bring Navy Jax up to date (though it will probably end up with no JS content other than items from the MAIW Libraries), and the recent John Young Vigilante package includes versions of the JS KNQX I updated for FSX, P34 and P35. So I remain hopeful that we will be able to bring even more of the Stinstrom oeuvre to P3D!
texxasal
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by texxasal »

Firebird wrote: 22 May 2022, 06:18 Al,
Lets start with basic stuff. Do you have the P3D SDK installed? If so, have you set up MCX to use it?
If the answer to either of those is no then that would explain why you are unable to convert the lib.
Yes, I do have both the V4 & V5 SDK's purchased, licensed, and installed. on my machine.

The version of ModelConverterX I have is the most current one available from their download page: 1.6.0.0, dated 5 Feb, 2020

When i select "Export": it does not provide an option to create a .BGL File.

If It's not too much trouble, could you at least provide me with the version of MCX which you used to create the "Objects" file, that you can't send me because the originator of it is either dead, or missing in action?

Thanks
Al Rosenberg
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1.6.0.0.No Option for BGL.jpg
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TimC340
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by TimC340 »

Ah. You've clicked on the wrong menu - you've selected 'Export Object'. What you want is 'Export Scenery'. You'll find the .bgl options there.

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texxasal
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by texxasal »

Thanks for getting back to me on this issue. Once again, too many tools for my stupid little brain.
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by Greg »

Maybe you'll find my old blog post in the Briefing Room useful. It's a bit outdated, but the scenery part is still valid.

https://militaryaiworks.com/briefing-ro ... to-fsx-p3d
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by TimC340 »

I'd forgotten about that, Greg. I could have saved Al a whole load of time by pointing him there!
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by texxasal »

Thanks for your time, and especially your patience with a very unsophisticated (so far as scenery creation/management) user. After trying a bunch of things, and speaking with Jon at ADE development, I'm at a point where I think I may have "cornered" my problem?

The Whidbey Objects Library.BGL, as supplied with the download from MAIW, has been "converted" through ModelConverterX, and now resides in the "Scenery" folder, replacing the original one, as verified by date modified, and size.

I have added the object to ADE, and it now shows up there.

I can access the individual "objects" via the add object menu, and they "appear" within the airport being edited.

The airport seems to compile, as verified by date modified and size.

My problem is that the added object(s) from the Whidbey Objects Library.BGL don't appear within the flight simulator (P3D V 5.3 in this case).

After conversational messages with Jon at ADE, he suggests that the reason the objects aren't appearing is that, despite being compiled properly, when attempting to load the requested "object", the simulator can't "find" the corresponding Texture.

I have no idea where I might find and provide the required textures?

The package I'm working with is from MAIW downloads, as - MAIW Whidbey Island Growlers_Desmond Burrell

Thanks

Al Rosenberg
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by jetpilot1980 »

texxasal wrote: 24 May 2022, 16:10
My problem is that the added object(s) from the Whidbey Objects Library.BGL don't appear within the flight simulator (P3D V 5.3 in this case).

This is a well known compatibility issue with V5 in general, along with the way V5 handles (ignores) excludes... and does not just affect addon scenery object but default as well... Many (including myself) have complained about this on the LM P3d forums; but so far LM has not stated that they are going to take any action or expressed any interest in making a HF for this problem...

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopi ... 2&t=144990

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopi ... 2&t=144718

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopi ... 7&t=144655

The list goes on... I even went so far as to PM one of the LM guys on the forum and while I saw my message was read (or moved from outbox to sent); I never got a response..
texxasal
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by texxasal »

jetpilot1980 wrote: 24 May 2022, 18:33
texxasal wrote: 24 May 2022, 16:10
My problem is that the added object(s) from the Whidbey Objects Library.BGL don't appear within the flight simulator (P3D V 5.3 in this case).

This is a well known compatibility issue with V5 in general, along with the way V5 handles (ignores) excludes... and does not just affect addon scenery object but default as well... Many (including myself) have complained about this on the LM P3d forums; but so far LM has not stated that they are going to take any action or expressed any interest in making a HF for this problem...

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopi ... 2&t=144990

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopi ... 2&t=144718

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopi ... 7&t=144655

The list goes on... I even went so far as to PM one of the LM guys on the forum and while I saw my message was read (or moved from outbox to sent); I never got a response..

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'm about to tear out what little remains of my gray hair.

Do you know if V4 works any better? I also have that loaded on my machine.

Otherwise, Can I bring up FSX/ACC, and use the ADE within it (or possibly even Instant Scenery?) to add the stuff I need? I just want the buildings, etc. to show up in the simulator.

Thanks

Al Roseneberg
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by TimC340 »

texxasal wrote: 24 May 2022, 16:10 Thanks for your time, and especially your patience with a very unsophisticated (so far as scenery creation/management) user. After trying a bunch of things, and speaking with Jon at ADE development, I'm at a point where I think I may have "cornered" my problem?

The Whidbey Objects Library.BGL, as supplied with the download from MAIW, has been "converted" through ModelConverterX, and now resides in the "Scenery" folder, replacing the original one, as verified by date modified, and size.

I have added the object to ADE, and it now shows up there.

I can access the individual "objects" via the add object menu, and they "appear" within the airport being edited.

The airport seems to compile, as verified by date modified and size.

My problem is that the added object(s) from the Whidbey Objects Library.BGL don't appear within the flight simulator (P3D V 5.3 in this case).

After conversational messages with Jon at ADE, he suggests that the reason the objects aren't appearing is that, despite being compiled properly, when attempting to load the requested "object", the simulator can't "find" the corresponding Texture.

I have no idea where I might find and provide the required textures?

The package I'm working with is from MAIW downloads, as - MAIW Whidbey Island Growlers_Desmond Burrell

Thanks

Al Rosenberg
Hi Al. I think you're nearly there. While what jetpilot1980 says is true, it is perfectly possible to get KNUW working in v5.3 - as my screenshot above confirms. However, you do need to make sure the sim can see the textures. It's expecting to find them in a texture folder under the same containing folder as the scenery .bgls. I may be doing a bit of 'granny egg sucking' here, so forgive me if that's the case.

Wherever you've put the 'Scenery' folder that contains the KNUW bgls, you must also have the corresponding 'Texture' folder. I don't know if you're using the P3D-preferred xml method of loading scenery, or the old-fashioned (but perfectly serviceable) FS9/FSX Addon Scenery method, but the Texture folder from the original Burrell/Stinstrom package must be in the same place. Ideally, you'd convert the BMP texture files to DDS, but there's no necessity to do so. So, I presume you have the texture folder - if you didn't, you would only see the scenery objects covered in a black and white checkerboard pattern in MCX. Just copy and paste it into the same containing folder as you have the KNUW scenery folder.
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by jetpilot1980 »

texxasal wrote: 24 May 2022, 19:37

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'm about to tear out what little remains of my gray hair.

Do you know if V4 works any better? I also have that loaded on my machine.

No problem... From what I have seen this issue is unique to V5; not sure if it is texture handling related or a coding issue in the object .bgls / embedded .mdls in the .bgls. But I never had this issue in V4 and never heard any complaints about it from others in V4...
texxasal
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by texxasal »

In that case, since I maintain a V4 system for some testing I do for a vendor, I believe I'll do my scenery development in that "world".

Much appreciate your time, and efforts.

regards
TeXXasAl
jetpilot1980
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Re: KNUW conversion to P3D V5 - Objects not showing

Post by jetpilot1980 »

No problem, yes we all know and love that vendor you are referring to...
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