AIG and FSLTL are using their respective proprietary applications to inject traffic into the sim using the SimConnect SDK instead of using traffic BGL files.
It's not just about methodology, you actually need (a) programmer(s) with the time and motivation to write and maintain such an application. Unfortunatly, I have neither at the moment.
Or MAIW would have to piggyback on the AIG or FSLTL app which would make MAIW dependent on the other party. Something we've avoided ever since we stopped using the WoAI installer.
Hmmm. I kind of read that as 'it's not ours so we won't use it', which I think is a shame.
As you say, it needs programmers with time, knowledge and motivation, and we don't have them. But we do have creators with time, knowledge and motivation to produce the content. Whether MAIW likes it or not, those creators will gravitate towards AIG or FSLTL to get their stuff into MSFS if they have to. Surely it would be better to adopt one or other (or both) techniques here and get on with getting military AI into MSFS?
After all, it's a bit like saying you shouldn't use ADE or AIFP to do airfields and traffic files for FS9/X/P3D, but should only use the facilities in the SDK!
I don't think that is accurate.
What Greg mentions about the WoAI Installer is accurate. We were happy to use that in the early days but quite quickly we ran into trouble where our package design ran into problems with path name length. The installs weren't the problem but uninstalls were.
WoAI couldn't see the need to alter the product as their packs had no such issues.
I think that from then on the experienced coloured our approach but it has not become a hard and fast rule. We are just always careful about what we entered into with a third party. I remember that it wasn't too long ago that there was some grief over an AIG product that used and modded our packages and developers got a bit tense over that.
My personal take on this situation is that the AI situation is very fluid at the moment. In the same way that some people took their time in choosing which sim to choose after FS9/FSX, and some still haven't made their choice, there are a few different avenues at the moment. They are still developing and to me it makes sense to watch and see which prevails to be the best, most robust, and most cost effective solution.
Our solution for FS9 and eventually FSX was to package a self-installing solution.
It may be that that the flexibility of the MSFS addon system makes things just as simple but at this moment in time it doesn't seem to make sense to choose a final solution.
The only thing we have ever ruled out is where it involves a guaranteed cost for the users. I would like to think that this should be the only rule that we should have.
Steve _______________________________________________________ Quid Si Coelum Ruat _______________________________________________________
As i wrote in another post MAIW Traffic could support injection via FSHud since there is public SDK API (which is also used by FSLTL) that any of traffic add-ons makers can use.
It will be the simpliest and best way to insert MAIW traffic, avoiding part of the problems deriving from MSFS traffic management, manteining the MAIW folder structure. I know that FSHud is Payware but MSFS itself is, and MAIW will remain free forever, the same as FSLTL (wich by the way has reached a full integration in FSHud while remaining free)and other bgl based traffic files We all bought lot of addon, FSHud, in my opinion, is one of the must have, but i think we have to start considering that a necessary passage, to avoid most of the MSFS AI traffic misfunctions Evidence showed us that ASOBO has no intention (or the interest) to build a decent AI traffic system, remain on waiting for it, will be only a time loosing choice.
I've spent some time reading the FSHud forums. It would appear they're having the same problems with SU11 as everyone else! I wasn't aware that FSLTL used the same API, so that isn't particularly good news. However, both programs fail to provide traffic wherever you happen to open the sim, as is the case with the FS9/FSX/P3D AI engine (and, to a limited extent, MSFS native AI). Indeed, to get any AI traffic you must file a flight plan and be in an aircraft. On top of that, in FSHud you have to use their clunky (and extremely unrealistic) ATC to progress your flight. There is no option to just pick an airfield, sit at the threshold and just watch to see what turns up.
It appears that my optimism about FSLTL, Just Flight's FS Traffic, and AIG was misplaced!
Slightly off track here but I think it is relevant to mention that the SU12 beta is available for people who want to try such things. Some of the fixes are aimed at traffic and from what I have read on the official forums people that have checked AI seem to agree that SU12, in its current state, has definitely improved things.
I am not saying that all AI issues have been resolved and that it is full steam ahead. Just that progress has been made on some issues. I will let the package builders check for their issues once SU12 is out.
Steve _______________________________________________________ Quid Si Coelum Ruat _______________________________________________________
TimC340 wrote: ↑27 Feb 2023, 13:10
I've spent some time reading the FSHud forums. It would appear they're having the same problems with SU11 as everyone else! I wasn't aware that FSLTL used the same API, so that isn't particularly good news. However, both programs fail to provide traffic wherever you happen to open the sim, as is the case with the FS9/FSX/P3D AI engine (and, to a limited extent, MSFS native AI). Indeed, to get any AI traffic you must file a flight plan and be in an aircraft. On top of that, in FSHud you have to use their clunky (and extremely unrealistic) ATC to progress your flight. There is no option to just pick an airfield, sit at the threshold and just watch to see what turns up.
It appears that my optimism about FSLTL, Just Flight's FS Traffic, and AIG was misplaced!
It's not exactly like that. You can select an airport of your choice, once at the parking spot open FSHud and wait for it to load. When completed select free flight (you don't need to create a flight plan and actually take off) and the program will inject the AI traffic. If, like me, you also use FSTL and AIG, start it after FSHud and you will automatically find the FSTL real time traffic and, if selected, any sheduled bgl traffic ( toghether with AIG ones) present in your sim. At this point put yourself in external view, or in drone mode, and follow the AI traffic. To be clear, technically I use AIG only for models and flight plans, same thing for any custom traffic based on bgl (as in future it could be MAIW), FSTL is installed completely (models and injector) but then FSHud bypass the FSTL injector ,thus making it possible to use both scheduled bgl traffic and real time traffic merged together without overlaps or duplicates This way i have full AI traffic on any airport i've choosen until now both VFR and IFR.
(BTW the FSHud ATC is far better than the stock one but that's just my opinion of course !)
Last edited by Kulbit on 27 Feb 2023, 17:39, edited 3 times in total.
Firebird wrote: ↑27 Feb 2023, 13:27
Slightly off track here but I think it is relevant to mention that the SU12 beta is available for people who want to try such things. Some of the fixes are aimed at traffic and from what I have read on the official forums people that have checked AI seem to agree that SU12, in its current state, has definitely improved things.
I am not saying that all AI issues have been resolved and that it is full steam ahead. Just that progress has been made on some issues. I will let the package builders check for their issues once SU12 is out.
Good grief, the MSFS forums are as catty as Mumsnet! I'm glad I no longer spend any time there (MSFS - Mumsnet is much more entertaining!).
Thanks for the explanation, Kulbit. I can't be arsed to put in all the effort required to do what you do. If I install AI, whether payware of freeware, I expect it to work as advertised and be easy to use. Getting AI into MSFS is anything but easy, even with payware like Just Flight FS Traffic. As for the ATC in FSHud, it sounds and behaves like someone threw a South African or Australian ATC manual into the mix without editing it for the pedantry such documents contain. Even FSX recognised that ATC is a conversation between people, and that responses aren't mechanical.
I'll wait for the SU12 release to see whether or not it's made the sim any more usable and likeable. In the meantime, I have plenty to do with FSX and P3D, and I'm about to press the button on KSP2!
