AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

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JoeJeepWrangler
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AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by JoeJeepWrangler »

Hello everyone! Been having a great time with the AIFP for P3Dv4, but an issue has come up.
Any new plans i make featuring a touch and go at an airport that isnt the origin airport result in the plane becoming stuck in an infinite loop of touch and goes, and they will never continue to the return flight leg.
Anyone know whats going on here?
Thanks everyone!
ps ive included my latest plan which is effected by the error.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by Firebird »

OK I think it is quite an easy one to solve.
With a TNG leg if it is not followed by the next leg within 5 mins then it will go off script.

Back in the early years of MAIW we took into account the vague nature of compilers and decided to go for the next leg to follow on 3 mins after the previous leg ended.
So in your case try altering the start time of the second leg of N401AX to 01:04 from 01:21, and obviously adjust the arrival time of that leg as well.
N402AX would start with 01:01.

Try that to see if your problems are solved.
Steve
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JoeJeepWrangler
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by JoeJeepWrangler »

Hi Firebird,

This worked, Thank you!
However, I've found another similar issue with one of my other, older plans

This plan was working fine until yesterday

On his final leg, returning to KEDW from KLAX, he lowers the gear, goes full burner, and appears to line up for a landing on a runway that doesnt exist. he therefore flies low until he smacks a mountain.

Any idea why? Plan included.

Thanks for the help!
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by Firebird »

The plan itself seems basic, but sometimes basic is good for spotting issues.
The fact that the aircraft flies the second leg would seem to indicate that the plan is fine.

The behaviour of the aircraft seems to indicate that it has gone ballistic, i.e. lost all instructions. Now from FS9 you get the burners come in when the aircraft spawns in game and the burners will stay on for about 30-50 secs. Is that what happens here?

Generally speaking if something worked until today then you have accidentally changed something that affects the flight.

Firstly, as a general rule try to avoid using 2hr flight plans. They are very easy to introduce errors with. I can't see any with yours but still.
What I would do with your plans is alter it to a 4hr plan. Then alter the second leg times to an hour later. All this does is induce stability and avoids issues caused by cramming two legs into a 2hr window.

Now if you alter the plan as I suggest and you still have the same issue then i suggest that the issue is more related to scenery than anything else.

Are you using a new version of KEDW or an amended version of an afcad for KEDW? Your symptoms sound like the aircraft is confused.
Try running the Find/Collect Airports function in AIFP to ensure that you have the full up to date airport details for your setup and also check that you haven't got multiple KEDW afcads active.

Let us know if you find any new info. More info is needed to resolve this.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by JoeJeepWrangler »

Hi firebird!

So it turns out, after disabling my MCAS Yuma scenery, which is over 240 miles from edwards, the problem was fixed.
re-enabling the Yuma scenery brings the issue back, so it was Yuma that was causing the issue..

I have no clue how, though!
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by Firebird »

There are two things that spring to mind. One is that the Yuma scenery includes an afcad for KEDW and the coordinates are different enough to throw off the aircraft on approach.
The second thing is a weird one. I had some scenery for RAF Fairford but the scenery refused to show up. I lucked out while investigating and found that some payware scenery for RAF St Mawgan, a couple of hundred miles away was stamping on the location and it was blocking the scenery showing up. It maybe that a similar thing is happening here.

Which Yuma scenery are you using?
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by JoeJeepWrangler »

Shehryar and Brian's nyl2014x.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by JoeJeepWrangler »

Hi everybody! Sorry to revive a dead topic, but the Touch and go loop issue is back.
I have no clue whats causing these 2 plans to fail and go off script, Everything seems fine with them..
Thanks everybody!
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by TimC340 »

You have only one or two minutes between arrival and departure. That won't work. It needs to be 3 minutes, as Steve indicated upthread.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by pslinger »

Is there a place where all of this collective knowledge is kept? If there is a document(s) or tutorial(s) where this information is kept, could you point me to it? So far what I have learned is by reading various posts and trial and error.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by TimC340 »

Well, there’s some info in the ‘Briefings’ section of this site, and a whole load of it over at FSDeveloper (where Don Grovestine had the support forums for his software such as AIFP), but I’m not aware that anyone has catalogued it.

Steve is probably the most expert at the particular needs of AI in the MAIW context; Don and Jim Vile were the gurus in the overall AI picture. There is an enormous amount of info out there, but I doubt it will ever be collated now that the original MSFS and its derivatives are in their sunset phase.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by gsnde »

I can recommend Don‘s documentation that goes with AIFP.


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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by Jorgen »

The AIFP manual is THE starting point, of course. If that doesn't clear things up, then by all means ask here.

And if you go to AIG, under Flightplanning there is a place where you can ask also. At least Johan over there knows a lot of bits and pieces about AIFP.

But sadly, I don't think this info ever is going to come together in one location, now that Don has hung up his parachute.

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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by pslinger »

Thanks for the insights, appreciate it. What I'll probably start doing is collecting helpful hints as I come across them so I have them for reference.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by JoeJeepWrangler »

Hey everybody, sorry for not replying..
PC was in the shop.
I'll get to trying these methods soon! thanks!
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by JoeJeepWrangler »

3 minutes fixed one of the 3 plans. the KPMD plan is fixed, but the other 2 giving me issues are still stuck.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by Victory103 »

Joe, initial recommendations to change to IFR traffic file and use 12HR (I run WEEK). Your "Override ETA" needs to have time for the touch n goes. 1st pic your NASA F-18 arrives at 0219, but your override is the same time. Add some time for the approaches (15-20mins). If you want your AI to make a destination change on last approach (ie RTB) verse landing, after your TNG be sure to add 3 mins for departure for the next leg.

Arrives KMHV 0239, departs for KPMD at 0242.
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Re: AI planes stuck in an infinite touch and go loop

Post by Firebird »

Looking at your first plan I think you are trying to be too cute.
When learning about plans start simple and only when they work should you try to complicate things. It is the only way to learn what works and what doesn't.

You are doing a departure from KWJF to do TNGS at KVCV and then you follow this with TNGs at KVCV with a different height before departing for Edwards.
Just delete the third leg and alter the second leg to end at 02:08.

Now you depart KWJF at 01:19 to transit to KVCV at FL135 and then do rollers at KVCV until departing for KEDW at 02:11.

Don't try to micro-manage. Get the basic right and then push it to see if something works. If it does - great - remember it. If it doesn't - remember that too and don't do it again.
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