jvile
|
 |
« on: July 09, 2004,
03:43:37 pm » |
|
I spend most of my time developing XML ILS
approachs for new runways that real world airports add.
Just recently I have noticed post where the star
concept is being used without success for activating
non-parallel or crosswind runways.
I am listing the
technique that I use to activate certain non-parallel or
crosswind runways when developing my Active ILS Series of
Airports.
There are plenty of post on how to create a
workable star but the problem is that aircraft will use this
star when visiblity is greater then 3 miles and planes land
where they are not suppose to (on the grass).
Follow
these steps:
1. The star degree offset between any 2
runways that you pair together cannot be greater then 7.9
degrees. Always add 7.9 degrees or less to the True heading in
runway property's. Mag heading will update and change
automactically.
2. The new visual runways MUST BE a
minimum of 10 X 10 ft and closed on both ends (4 ticks) for
T/O and Landing. Place the new runways anywhere on the airport
property until all have been added.
3. After the star
is finished use the list dropdown menu in AFCAD2 and look at
all the runways. The new visual runways must be placed (drag)
between 2 of the default FS9 runways. When you complete this
step you must now re-name all the runway link lines (black) to
the original runway numbers.
Now most of you have
already tried all of this and the runways still did not work.
So continue
4. Slew the user aircraft in any direction
at a high altitude away from the airport up to 108 NM. Use a
VOR/DME (if available) to see how far away you have slewed the
plane. Try and place the user aircraft at a position that does
not get a lot of arrival AI Traffic.
5. Note the
crosshair of your User Aircraft on the Grid of the AFCAD
screen.
6. Now drag all of the star visual runways you
created to the crosshair symbol using the rubberband method or
the shift select keys.
7. Using AFCAD2 make sure all
active runways at the current airport are open on both ends
and listen to ATIS which will check and tell you the fake
runways exsist if everything was done correctly.
Are
you starting to see what you have now accomplished?
By
placing the visual runways 100 miles from the airport all the
AI Traffic arrivals will find an active runway at the airport
and not a visual fictious runway 100 miles away. Based on
direction and LAT/LONG of each active runway, ATC approach
will vector arrivals accordingly to your new paired or
additional crosswind runway based on winds.
Hope
this helps |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
John
Glossop
FSVC Old Codger; PAI CEO PAI Senior
Staff Hero Member      OfflinePosts:
3161 FSVC Old Codger; PAI CEO |
 |
« Reply #1 on: July 10,
2004, 01:38:06 am » |
|
Wonder if you'd mind posting a sample (small
zip file) of how you do it here, so that the rest of us can
have a look? |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
jvile
|
 |
« Reply #2 on: July 10,
2004, 01:56:48 am » |
|
John:
I will work up KCLT (USAir's home
airport) which has parallel north/south runways and one ENE
5/23 runway and attach within 24 hrs. as an
example. |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
cvgee
Ground Crew Newbie  OfflinePosts:
1 Ground Crew |
 |
« Reply #3 on: July 10,
2004, 03:14:44 am » |
|
Jvile!
You're great, I tested
this method at Barcelona El Prat (LEBL) and it works
great! No more grass landings, I assumed they
would be still there, but not visible in the airport area,
because the 'star' runways are 50+ miles out, but I checked
the spot where I placed them for over an hour, no landings
there at all!! All planes go to the real runways at the
airport itself! One more thing however, planes
also approach a runway that is closed for landing at both
ends, I guess this has to do with the
XML-stuff?? Keep up the good work, now it really
gonna looks like real! CVG |
|
|
Logged
| | | |
xavios
Flight Crew Jr. Member   OfflinePosts:
91 Flight Crew |
 |
« Reply #4 on: July 10,
2004, 05:09:14 am » |
|
Well, I think the first 1/2/3 steps are the
most important ones and if you get AIs on the good runways I
cannot understand why the following steps? Am I wrong
thinking steps 4/5 /6 are useful only to move AIs that
still would like to use false runway(s) to land out of
sight? When you ask to:
Now using AFCAD2 make sure all active runways
at the current airport are open on both ends. I
think you mean for landing? because if you open runways also
for take-off it might happens problems for
them. Waiting to see your example anyway. Bon
courage |
|
|
Logged
| | | |
jvile
|
 |
« Reply #5 on: July 10,
2004, 01:15:05 pm » |
|
Xavios:
"Am I wrong thinking steps
4/5 /6 are useful only to move AIs that still would like to
use false runway(s) to land out of sight?"
No
planes will try and land at the visable runways because there
is no approach procedure. A no written approach procedure can
only occur within the border of the airport.
Steps
4/5/6 are needed so any plane assigned the visual runway
(based on a direct heading) is now forced to arrive at the
airport on a written approach for a defaut FS9
runway.
Yes, I do mean to open all runways. This is the
whole purpose of activating every runway at a given airport. A
AI plane cannot taxi to a runway that does not have a taxi
(black) line connected to a parking spot that is 50 miles
away. This again forces all departures to seek a active FS9
default runway.
Trafficlook is the tool I use to
monitor arrivals and departure because it shows when the AI
plane is assigned a runway both on the ground and in the air.
It also shows a plane that was using a visable runway and then
what approach procedure ATC gives the plane after the visable
runways are moved 50 miles away.
Hope this
helps |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
jvile
|
 |
« Reply #6 on: July 10,
2004, 01:24:42 pm » |
|
Cvgee:
It does nothing to close a
default FS9 runway on both ends for arrival. This has to do
with the direction and vsual zone the landing plane comes
from.
Any AI plane that is within a 8 degree arc
(direct line from departure airport) of a closed runway will
continue to use that runway.
The closing of a runway
on both ends for departure is more of a hard code for FS9 then
arrivals. |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
FKHUL
Flight Crew Jr. Member   OfflinePosts:
55 Flight Crew |
 |
« Reply #7 on: July 10,
2004, 04:47:13 pm » |
|
jvile, This method has worked
amazingly well at both KORD and KLGA for me. Finally someone
has figured out how to perfect the non-parallel runway
problem. You're my savior! I can finally fly into and out of
KORD without having 2 runways active, or without seeing every
other plane land in the grass. Thank you so
much! Jeremy |
|
|
Logged
| | | |
flabba
Ground Crew Newbie  OfflinePosts:
15 Ground Crew |
 |
« Reply #8 on: July 10,
2004, 07:10:46 pm » |
|
hey i have seen where u work wonders with the
miami went spotting there and go arounds were very minimal. i
am eager to try your method but like fs 9 i have limitations
that needs to be tweaked. if u could be kind enough as to
explain what is the star concept and how to use it to bcreate
runways
thanks much |
|
|
Logged
| | | |
jvile
|
 |
« Reply #9 on: July 10,
2004, 08:14:26 pm » |
|
As per John Glossop I am attaching to this
post an example AFCAD2 of KCLT for the crosswind technique
that I use on the Active ILS Series of airports. I picked this
airport out of many that I am working on for more ATC
intelligence.
This AFCAD file is an example ONLY! Do
not upload to any web site. This AFCAD does not meet any PAI
standard and gates are only added so USA has alot of parking
spots. Taxiways have been tweaked somewhat for more fluid
movement of AI Traffic. By design several nodes are
disconnected if you run the fault finder. No exclusions or XML
approachs have been applied.
This is a stock KCLT
airport modified with AFCAD only.
Use this AFCAD to
look at how the crosswind technique is applied and the
operation of all runways opened both IMC and VMC (always give
yourself a little runway wind).
You can locate the
visual runways by turning on view NAVAIDS in AFCAD then
finding the outer marker symbol 50 miles south of runway 36L
(not 7 miles). You will have to zoom in when you get there
because they are only 10 x 10 in size.
Experiment with
it. Example, close runway 5/23 on both ends. Using Trafficlook
or the MSN SDK toolkit observe how ATC approach changes the
vector sequencing of arrival aircraft to other active
runways.
If you move the visual runways back to the
airport then AI Traffic from KTPA, KGSO, KRSW, KILM, KPIT,
KCHO, KAHN, KROA etc will try and land on them.
Look
closely how the visual runways are sandwiched between 2 FS9
default runways in the list runway dropdown menu. This is very
important for FS9 to recognize the paired runway (36L/18R to
5/23)
Make sure you have USA flightplans. Use a time
that loads the runways excessively for departure and arrival.
I use 17:30 GMT for testing purposes. Be careful if you
increase time to 4x's. Remove or rename your current af2_KCLT
and replace with this one in your AFCAD scenery folder
temporarily. |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
Marty
Henare
PAI AFCAD Staff PAI
Staff Newbie      OfflinePosts:
44 PAI AFCAD Staff |
 |
« Reply #10 on: July 10,
2004, 10:00:02 pm » |
|
Damn you bet me to it, i was just about to
suggest placing the star well away from the airfield. Now
the next trick is to have ATIS ignore the star runways, and to
make atc assign departing runways a bit more randomly. I
have YMML working really well, but Qantas and half of
international terminal a/c use 09/27, while virgin,the other
half of international and freight use 16/34. But the
landing side of things is very good and not much different
from real life.
Excellent stuff mate Thanks for
sharing |
|
|
Logged |
Low and fast through the mountain
pass | | |
jvile
|
 |
« Reply #11 on: July 10,
2004, 10:57:31 pm » |
|
Marty:
It is odd to hear all the
visual's announced by ATIS. If airport visibility is less then
3 miles then you only get departure announcements not
arrivals.
I have been working on this but the ATC voice
calls what is written (runways) in the AP******.bgl or
the AFCAD.bgl. I have rewritten upper layer XML's with no
success. May have to go lower in the ATC airport layer to
eliminate the ATIS calling visual runways.
I have not
been able to decompile the airport border bgl (hex editing
only) yet but it appears to be 25 - 30 miles from the center
(pinky spot) of the airport.
If and when I do get into
the border.bgl properly thats when frequency assignments can
be enhanced for Center vs. Altitude also.
Runway
assignment is done by the distance of the parking spot to the
LAT/LONG of the closest runway. The LAT/LONG is the very
center point (halfway) of the runway distance. Don't know if
that hard coded data can ever be changed in FS9. |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
SteveParkinson
Transplanted Texan PAI Staff Sr.
Member      OfflinePosts:
404 Transplanted Texan |
 |
« Reply #12 on: July 11,
2004, 01:26:58 am » |
|
Jim, Downloaded and ran your
KCLT and I must say excellent job, you are the man! Traffic
not only landed on all three runways but took off using all
runways also. First time I used it was using actual weather
(T-storms) and traffic used 36L &R and 5 for takeoff and
landings. Next I changed weather too wind gusts out of the
south and they used 18L & R and 23. I am impressed, this
could be a major breakthrough on the non parallel runways. I
am going to start working on KDFW and can hopefully get
something working with that.
Right now: takeoffs
36R/18L and 35L/17R with 36L/18R and 35C/17C used
occasionally.
landings 36L/18R and 35R/17L
Would like to
get DFW more realistic: Landings 36L/18R and 31R for the east
side of airport.
35C/17C, 35R/17L and 13R for west side
of airport.
Going to see what I can do with it tonight
and tomorrow. Thanks for the download, that cleared things up
alot.
Steve |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
xavios
Flight Crew Jr. Member   OfflinePosts:
91 Flight Crew |
 |
« Reply #13 on: July 11,
2004, 03:50:42 am » |
|
It is absolutely wonderful to see it
working. And you also have modified the runway crossing in
a brilliant way like in the "removing hold short node" thread
in a very discreet way... Congratulations! it's a major
improvement. |
|
|
Logged
| | | |
SteveParkinson
Transplanted Texan PAI Staff Sr.
Member      OfflinePosts:
404 Transplanted Texan |
 |
« Reply #14 on: July 11,
2004, 04:46:21 am » |
|
Runway assignment is done by the
distance of the parking spot to the LAT/LONG of the closest
runway. The LAT/LONG is the very center point (halfway) of the
runway distance. Don't know if that hard coded data can ever
be changed in FS9.
This is true I believe. Worked
on the stars method you provided tonight Jim and no luck at
KDFW. Another problem I have is most of the
terminals/parking are on the East side of the airport so I
tried to force most of the American Eagle's to use 18L vs 17R
to eliminate so much traffic waiting 17R/35L departure. I went
as far as adding an overlapping taxiway over the existing one
just for Eagleflight parking on the Eastside all the way to a
node just before 18L. ATC still has them taxi to 17R, they
will taxi up to 18L and then make a U-turn and backtrack to
17R. Still working on the Stars with KDFW, do you have
to add the black taxiway line on the dummy runways located 50
miles off the airport or just add the runways, disable them
and you are done? Steve |
|
|
Logged |
| | |
|