AI plane turning too fast on runway - AFCAD problem?

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 09 Feb 2008, 19:47

Hi guys,

please help me to resolve the problem:
I'm designing an AFCAD file for LLMZ, just from scratch, basing on Google Earth.

Everything works OK but I observe, that AI Cessna having to take off from Rwy 01 is taxiing from the south apron, using runway link and then, not getting to the north Rwy 01 starting position, is turning around to start.
Why is that so?

KevinJarvis · Post by **KevinJarvis** » 09 Feb 2008, 19:58

If you don't have a taxi link established there that is very odd.

I usually run a taxi link next to the runway link so the aircraft will not use the runway link to taxi.

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 09 Feb 2008, 20:52

You mean a taxi link which is outside the runway?

Google Earth does not allow me for "external" taxi link, there is soft sand around on this desert ...

KevinJarvis · Post by **KevinJarvis** » 09 Feb 2008, 21:10

Not outside the runway itself, but right next to the runway link.
I put mine on the opposite side of the runway from the turn around apron.
That way the turn is not too sharp.
This way you have the impression that the aircraft is doing a correct back-taxi but not on the runway link.
But the aircraft will be a bit off center of the runway.

Does that make sense??

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 09 Feb 2008, 21:26

Yes, it makes sense but ... I tried this solution once.
The problem is that AI are so smart. You have to connect a runway link to a taxi link on the south as well (for landing AI), so taxiing off planes will choose that link first and then will use runway link to go north - this is what I observed once but not here. I will try this anyway.

BTW - maybe some problems are because LLMZ is BELOW SEA LEVEL?
For example - Most Realistic AI "plane" is going crazy, getiing shaky but goes to normal when an AI climbs above 0 level ...

Post by **Firebird** » 09 Feb 2008, 21:47

Rip, took a look at the afcad attached and I noticed a big difference between it and the afcad for Sde Dov, LLSD, that was done for the Ben Gurion project.

On that one there was no Taxiway link down the middle of the runway, just the runway link and the taxiway links were attached when you actually wanted to turn. There is obviously a reason for it, but if it works for LLSD why does the same method not work for LLMZ?

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 09 Feb 2008, 21:58

I don't know but ... Kevin's solution just worked!
AI was not so smart and took apron link not a runway link, hurray:

I still have a usual problem with AI getting stuck and not taking off but this used to be connected to using MRAI "plane". I should try to spot with regular MS SDK Tools/Traffic Toolbox/Explorer rather.

GrahamS · Post by **GrahamS** » 09 Feb 2008, 22:01

AI are known not to work properly, if at all, on airports which are below sea level. If the general level is only a few feet below zero then you will be OK but this one is way down. Several airports at this level will not allow any AI movements so if you are getting anything it is a bonus.

KevinJarvis · Post by **KevinJarvis** » 09 Feb 2008, 22:14

OMG..something I said actually worked?
Lemme sit for a moment..please.

What Graham mentioned is true too. I've been reading up on this at various forums and everyone seems to have some type of trouble with airports that are below sea level.

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 09 Feb 2008, 23:12

GREAT!

Now the guy both turn around on the apron AND actually takes off!

The mystery lied in lacking of hold short node. When I created one on the apron everything looks all right.
Well .. maybe one issue - when I use hold short node then I got hold short yellow lines as well - this look a little funny on a sand.
IS THERE ANY magic to get rid of those lines?

Post by **Firebird** » 10 Feb 2008, 08:25

Yep, reduce the width of the taxiway to next to nothing and therefore the width of the hold short lines will be next to nothing.
Of course if you are using the afcad to actually draw the taxiway visible in FS9 it becomes more complicated, and we can cross that bridge if we need to.

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 10 Feb 2008, 20:06

YES!

Reducing taxi links from both sides of hold short node to ~10cm works!

So, to summarize - what to do to have such a sandy AFCAD made scenery work properly for AI:
1. There need to be a taxi link parallel to runway link.
2. There SHOULD be hold short nodes, outside of runway.
3. Links to hold short nodes should be very thin.

So, there's magic involved as everything works like a charm below see level (just MRAI is shaking up to level 0).
I can make some other working sandy strips now!

BTW - what I'm doing there?
Well, there is a personal mini-project to suplement AI Israeli Traffic Packs by Dmitry Gutenberg, which cover dozens of real Israeli GA but ... lack flightplans (+ there is a need to supply a few AI ready AFCADs).
Flightplans are already/ will be generated using a current secret weapon ...

I hope to release all that stuff to Avsim.

Thanks guys for all your tips!

KevinJarvis · Post by **KevinJarvis** » 10 Feb 2008, 20:17

I'm glad to help.
Nice to see that it is now working good for you.

Post by **Firebird** » 10 Feb 2008, 20:30

Yeah, ditto with the above, Rip.

Post by **gsnde** » 16 Feb 2008, 08:32

Rysiek,

What is the name of the AI Traffic tool which can be seen on your screen shots? I remember that I have seen it before, but can't remember when and where...

Cheers,
Martin

Post by **Firebird** » 16 Feb 2008, 09:29

Thats TVB 2.1, Martin. TrafficViewBoard.

Post by **gsnde** » 16 Feb 2008, 13:43

That was the name. Thank you, Steve !

Martin

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 17 Feb 2008, 01:54

Martin, if your talking about the little black screen, thats Traffic Tool Box from MRAI. You can find it on Avsim if MRAI are not around anymore. I use it too, but it has its drawbacks.

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 17 Feb 2008, 01:55

Aww Steve, you beat me to it!!!

And you're right it is Traffic View Board

And somehow I'm 12 hours behind