Russian/exUSSR military plans

All things Military AI that don't fit anywhere else.
User avatar
VulcanDriver
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 4575
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 20:58
Version: FSX
Location: EGHH

Post by VulcanDriver »

P3_Super_Bee wrote:Sure miss the Cold War Days though. So much better then. (Not that I was wanting to go to war with the USSR, but more so in the way things were done, and the money we had.)
Yeah so do I, and we knew who our 'enemy' was then. The Soviets knew the risks and didn't want to risk another world war. They remembered the Eastern Front and the numbers of their people who died (20 million +).

Also they could control their 'sponsored' states. I don't think the North Koreans would have gone nuke if the Soviets where still in power. Neither would we have every tin-pot dictator trying it on with West.

Now, we have 'nutters' who don't care who dies or how. The world is less safe place since the Soviet Union collapsed.

John (in thoughtful mode)
John

"That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The A-bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." - Admiral William Leahy
User avatar
RipPipPip
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 871
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 20:57
Version: FS9
Location: Between EPWA & EPBC, that's north of Krakozhia (?)

Post by RipPipPip »

VulcanDriver wrote:...The world is less safe place since the Soviet Union collapsed...
Hmmm, not a hyper popular statement but there is some truth in it :P
"For a few FPS more"
Image
Rysiek Winawer
User avatar
VulcanDriver
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 4575
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 20:58
Version: FSX
Location: EGHH

Post by VulcanDriver »

RipPipPip wrote:
VulcanDriver wrote:...The world is less safe place since the Soviet Union collapsed...
Hmmm, not a hyper popular statement but there is some truth in it :P
Sorry Rysiek, I forgot you must have lived under Soviet dominated Govts... I work with a Polish woman (very beautiful, are they all like models :wink: ), who has told me some stories about the lack of food etc under Communism.

John
John

"That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The A-bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." - Admiral William Leahy
User avatar
Cianofranc
Captain
Captain
Posts: 204
Joined: 17 Aug 2006, 08:53
Version: FS9
Location: Italy

Post by Cianofranc »

Bah...


World are less safe for many reasons...

1. Bin Laden (he needs a little weapon in the right place);
2. Al Quaeda;
3. North Korea (that man is crazy!);
4. Israel vs. Palestinian conflict (do you mean they meet a way to keep peace one day?);
5. Iranian nuclear power wishes (another crazy man!);
6. China and India commercial expansions;
7. Oil price is going to high!
8. go on...

We enjoyed the Berlin's wall fall!!
I think Europe is safer after that.
We feel better without cold war, and we are all waiting for real democracy in eastern europe, expecially in Russia and in the other ex soviet republics.
Excuse me for this sermon, but i have low spirits tonight...
Cheers
Luciano
User avatar
GZR_Sactargets
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 984
Joined: 23 Aug 2006, 19:20
Version: FS9
Location: PAPILLION, NEBRASKA(Near OFFUTT AFB-KOFF)

Post by GZR_Sactargets »

I get a chuckle out of 'assessments' of safety or threats. Over the long run it really boils down to subsets not a global thing. The key elements are Capability and intent. Capability is fairly easy to determine, just tote up the Orders of Battle, Command and Control, Maintainence and Logistics, hardware production, etc. Now comes the hard part- INTENTION!! Intention is normally an educated guess. It can be based on short-term hard evidence. This would be troop movements, announcements in world forums, stated policies, etc. As we all recall from Pearl Harbor we sometimes may a poor assessment of intent. In a perfect world, you have both capability and intent clearly established.

It is not a perfect world. We are safer in relation to a World conflagation since the Soviets shifted intent. We are not safer in terms of terror states.
They have more limited capability, but also more unpredictable intent.
So a global assessment that we are less safe may be correct-but it also requires some specifics and not a generalization based on one event-The collapse of the Soviet Union. :twisted:
GZR_SACTARGETS
drmweaver2
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 93
Joined: 02 Oct 2006, 16:26
Version: FS9

Post by drmweaver2 »

No biggie, but haven't we "strayed off topic" a bit? Notice I said "we".. I am guilty also.
User avatar
GZR_Sactargets
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 984
Joined: 23 Aug 2006, 19:20
Version: FS9
Location: PAPILLION, NEBRASKA(Near OFFUTT AFB-KOFF)

Post by GZR_Sactargets »

Yeah, probably belongs in the real military section at this point. :roll:
GZR_SACTARGETS
P3_Super_Bee
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 68
Joined: 16 Aug 2006, 05:43

Post by P3_Super_Bee »

GZR_Sactargets wrote:Yeah, probably belongs in the real military section at this point. :roll:
Probably so, Sorry for knocking this out into left field. Though still do miss those days. Would sure make the P-3 world a lot better that it is now, with the way we play musical airplanes now.
drmweaver2
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 93
Joined: 02 Oct 2006, 16:26
Version: FS9

Post by drmweaver2 »

Okay.. back home now. In an attempt to drag this thread back (kicking and screaming though it might) back on topic.... here's the file listing I compiled of Russian fighter aircraft models. Note the limitations of the file's sources and the results:
1. Only avsim.com, flightsim.com and simviation.com were searched.
2. Only simple searches were used (ex., MIG29 and Mig-29 but not MIG-29K).
3. I didn't look for texture packages per se, but these searches turned up numerous texture packs/liveries are out there for various models - especially one guy's Mig-29! However, I did not include listings of those liveries as I was interested in Russian units only --- and none of the liveries are anywhere as specifically-detailed/textured as similar unit/squadron aircraft in US/RAF/RAAF currently available to us. That is, they are generic paints mostly varying by camo-pattern.
4. Most of the files found ARE NOT AI-specific files, though there is a 7-LOD Mig-21 available. I did not specifically make note of the multi-LODed aircraft - I leave that to those who are interested.

While some payware aircraft are mentioned, those were a result of the searches on the three freeware sites I looked at - not a dedicated search for payware aircraft as I wanted to limit the possibilites to freeware but felt tha I should be aware of the payware aircraft some people had created liveries for. So, this is probably the weakest area of the document.

The attached file is an MSWord document. I guarantee that it was virus-free when I created and sent it. However, if you have any doubts, virus scan it as/after you download it yourself.

Lastly, I am not a perfect typist. If errors are found in the document, please excuse the typing, notify me of the error and/or just do a search on the appropriate site.

I intend this as an aid, not as a definitive document.

Hopefully it at least acts as a starting point for those who are interested in Russian Military AI.
Attachments
Russian Military Aircraft AI files.doc
(45.5 KiB) Downloaded 140 times
drmweaver2
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 93
Joined: 02 Oct 2006, 16:26
Version: FS9

Post by drmweaver2 »

Here's the list of Russian bomber aircraft I found currently available - same caveat's as in the post above.

Avsim - TU94Bear.zip, TU-95_bear_102610.zip

Flightsim.com- rltu95ms.zip, rl95fix.zip
A_TU-142.zip
TU-22P_41.zip
TU-160.zip, TU160fx.zip, TU160fd2.zip

Simviation.com- TU95Cuba.zip, TU-95Bear.com
TU-142Bear.zip

A couple of those are 2k2/2k models, so they may or may not fly in FS9. I haven't tried any of them yet.

This gives us a current baseline of what's out and about in terms of bombers and fighters. Last area to round out the research would be to check on general purpose/transport or special purpose aircraft such as the BE-12, AN-22, etc.

A cursory search for Russian helo's, even flyable helo's (as opposed to AI helo's) shows VERY limited availability. There's a project for a modeller who wants a real challenge! The range is pretty good - fairly simple designs all the way through the bulbous monstrosities like the Ka-50/52's which have more things sticking off the body than hairs on a long-haired hippie whose hair is reacting to an electrical current from a Van der Graf generator.

The other research area necessary to "simulate real world ops" would be to identify the training areas and bombing ranges used. My problem is finding unclassified sources - things I "can neither confirm nor deny" based on my personal experience as the old joke goes. This might take a little while.

At this point, I want to play with some routing experiments, so.....we'll see.
User avatar
VulcanDriver
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 4575
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 20:58
Version: FSX
Location: EGHH

Post by VulcanDriver »

Just to say that in 2007 MAIW will be producing real AI models of the TU-160, TU-95MS and TU-22 up to our usual high standards.
These will be the basis of a MAIW Russian Bomber package.


John
John

"That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The A-bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." - Admiral William Leahy
drmweaver2
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 93
Joined: 02 Oct 2006, 16:26
Version: FS9

Post by drmweaver2 »

2007? That's cool to hear.

Until then, we/I will have make do with what is available if we/I can't wait for the "real thing". :P

I can work out the details of the flightplanning ahead of time - at least for myself. In my case, I'm going for "relative completeness" coupled with as much "relative" accuracy as my machine can handle without choking.

Actually, I'm going to "beef up"/restore the Russian Air Force flight plans to include Cold War trans-oceanic training flight status - like flights from Northern Fleet airfields to Cuba, from the Crimean Peninsula out into the Med (and 180degree "reverse azimuth" flights totally within the interior of Russia), simulated strikes on the Alaskan mainland, etc. But, that may be just for my machine, other people may not be interested .... I'll toss the plans up here in at least draft mode for others to comment when I have them prepped....(looking at maybe a week or so for these rough drafts unless the real world interferes too much).

Reinvigorating the Black Sea Fleet-related aviation flights should bring that entire region back to life. Right now it's kinda dead as a doornail. Having been stationed in Sinop, Turkey for a year, I miss the activity that used to go on between Nikolaev-Simferopol-Azov-Sochi and extending to the Turk border. Granted this is a modification of the current "real world", but everyone will make their own choices as to what is appropriate for their "desired world".

And I'll probably also mock up some VLAD-PETR-based "light 'em up" recce flights against Japan and South Korea just for fun.

Of course, the ASW coastal waters flights need planning, as do the aforementioned transport flights of the bigwigs/personnel and for cargo/supply flights from Western to Eastern Russia. I'm at the paper-planning stage for those already. It'll take another couple days before even the preliminary work is done (I'm kinda distracted by job hunting in the real world right now).

At this point, I'm about finished fleshing out exactly where *I* want to end up --- which is the way I work. I need to define the end goal first, then break the project down into bite-sized chunks. I also tend to constantly work in circles, as I find new things out or discover new techniques/info, I go back and modify plans and procedures to reflect those. So, I'm not particularly fast but I think I'm thorough.

Maybe someone else is interested in the fighter flightplanning? I'll probably mod whatever someone else comes up with in accordance with my own preferences later, but since there's at least some AI Mig-29/SU-27 aircraft available already, if anyone's interested in the Russian fighters NOW, this could be done pretty easily at least as an unofficial ("just between us") type thing. If no one else is interested in doing it though, I'll eventually get around to it - probably after at least the basic strategic and naval bomber missions are 75% or more done (I'm figuring about two-three weeks from now for something like a dozen or so somewhat detailed and tested draft flightplans.. lots of units to consider, numerous different mission packs, a little more research to conduct, etc.).

As always, suggestions, advice, comments welcomed.
User avatar
VulcanDriver
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 4575
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 20:58
Version: FSX
Location: EGHH

Post by VulcanDriver »

drmweaver2 wrote:Here's the list of Russian bomber aircraft I found currently available - same caveat's as in the post above.

Avsim - TU94Bear.zip, TU-95_bear_102610.zip

Flightsim.com- rltu95ms.zip, rl95fix.zip
A_TU-142.zip
TU-22P_41.zip
TU-160.zip, TU160fx.zip, TU160fd2.zip

Simviation.com- TU95Cuba.zip, TU-95Bear.com
TU-142Bear.zip

A couple of those are 2k2/2k models, so they may or may not fly in FS9. I haven't tried any of them yet..

The TU-95MS is a dream to fly in FS9, not tried the TU-22 yet but the TU-160 (made for FS2K2) is very crude compared to the quality of the TU95. The TU-95 (and its cousins, TU-114 and TU-126 are produced by SamDim Design, one of my favourite Russian FS modellers.

The AN-22 is still being used but it its role has been taken by the AN-124 Condor.

The AN-24 / 26 is still used for light work, and the AN-12 is in use in a similar role to the C-130 in Western air forces. Also (just confuse matters further) the Russian Air Force also flies airliners (TU-154 and Il-22 in Aeroflot colours. The Il-22 is use d as an airborne command post.
John

"That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The A-bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." - Admiral William Leahy
User avatar
Cianofranc
Captain
Captain
Posts: 204
Joined: 17 Aug 2006, 08:53
Version: FS9
Location: Italy

Post by Cianofranc »

Sukhoi Su-22 Moravec

Su_22m_4.zip (Moravec) - I don't remember where (www.avsim.ru ?)

Sukhoi Su-17 Kazunori Ito

Su_17M4.zip (I think Simviation.com, not sure)

Cheers

Luciano
drmweaver2
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 93
Joined: 02 Oct 2006, 16:26
Version: FS9

Post by drmweaver2 »

The SamDim Design site looks great! Too bad some of the key models are payware. Same thing with Alphasim.

But SamDim has a bunch of freeware aircraft that can be used in the "support roles" that will really add realism to any complete package that attempts to encompass the entire Russian Air Force.

Perhaps one of us should contact them. I have only scanned the freeware page so I didn't notice if they were multi-LODed.
Edje
Cadet
Cadet
Posts: 6
Joined: 20 Aug 2006, 21:11

Post by Edje »

Some time ago I've made flightplans for a few Russian a/c visiting the Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford. These include 2 x Su35, 1 x An26, 1 x Tu134UBL and 1 x An22 [vintage?!]. Unfortunately I am too busy at the moment with 'real life' to make a package of these plans. For those who are interested I can put these plans in this thread with references to the models I used.

Cheers,
Ed
User avatar
VulcanDriver
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 4575
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 20:58
Version: FSX
Location: EGHH

Post by VulcanDriver »

Edje wrote:Some time ago I've made flightplans for a few Russian a/c visiting the Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford. These include 2 x Su35, 1 x An26, 1 x Tu134UBL and 1 x An22 [vintage?!]. Unfortunately I am too busy at the moment with 'real life' to make a package of these plans. For those who are interested I can put these plans in this thread with references to the models I used.

Cheers,
Ed
Yes Please. I seem to remember these. Were they ever on FlightSim or AVSIM?

John
John

"That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The A-bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." - Admiral William Leahy
User avatar
VulcanDriver
MAIW Staff
MAIW Staff
Posts: 4575
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 20:58
Version: FSX
Location: EGHH

Post by VulcanDriver »

drmweaver2 wrote:The SamDim Design site looks great! Too bad some of the key models are payware. Same thing with Alphasim.
What's the URL?

John
John

"That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The A-bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." - Admiral William Leahy
drmweaver2
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 93
Joined: 02 Oct 2006, 16:26
Version: FS9

Post by drmweaver2 »

Edje wrote:Some time ago I've made flightplans for a few Russian a/c visiting the Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford. These include 2 x Su35, 1 x An26, 1 x Tu134UBL and 1 x An22 [vintage?!]. Unfortunately I am too busy at the moment with 'real life' to make a package of these plans. For those who are interested I can put these plans in this thread with references to the models I used.

Cheers,
Ed
Please do... I'd be interested in them.. whether to "add straight in"/incorporate them or to use them for a starting poitn. Of course, all credit would be given for anything derived from these.

Alternatively, pm them to me or email them to my dummy email at cmst1061 at yahoo dot com

I appreciate the offer and the info that someone else really did something in this area already, even if it's just a little bit - that's encouraging.


---

BTW, the SamDim Designs site is at http://samdimdesign.free.fr/
drmweaver2
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 93
Joined: 02 Oct 2006, 16:26
Version: FS9

Post by drmweaver2 »

Btw.. over on avsim, in case you missed it, there's an announcement that
a new Mig-15 payware product by Bear Studios is out -- supposedly works with both FS9 and X.

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=MiG-15
Post Reply