F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

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Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

Post by mikewmac »

John,

I just got a notice that that download link I posted may be for pirated software. I've reported it and asked for it to be removed. Sorry about that, but I had no idea that that was the case. :oops:

Unfortunately AI carriers designed for use with Aicarriers2 can't be used for your tests until if and when SimWorks Studios successfully perfects and releases their announced breakthrough for AI aircraft to operate from moving carriers or a moving carrier is converted to be a traditional AI with an AI FDE, an invisible airport AFCAD is created to park it on and a carrier AFCAD is created for it.

However, have you considered using your static FSX version of your JYAI Ark Royal for your tests? I know that it might appear a bit out of date for JYAI F-35's to be operating from it, but it might be suitable for testing purposes. :shock: :lol:
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    Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

    Post by John Young »

    No, that's fine Mike. Ark Royal has a ski jump so isn't suitable for F-35C's. What I can do is test the Carrier FDE on a runway to see if it operates in a deck's length. The FS9 FDE that Steve developed should be fine - I just need to get the FSX conversion done to make sure. When we discover a static FSX carrier with a hard deck that hopefully also works in P3Dv4 it's a simple job to set up a flight plan to make it happen.

    For the F-35B's in SRVL and STOVL modes, we'll have HMS Queen Elizabeth once I get it built (later). Maybe once we have something to work with, you might want to set up one or two of your famous flyby's?

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    Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

    Post by volador »

    Happy New Year John and for all peolpe at MAIW.

    Many thanks for the F-35C.

    Best regards
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    Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

    Post by mikewmac »

    John,

    I found two static aircraft carriers that look like anonymous Nimitz class in both LM P3D v3.4 and 4.1, one docked at NAS North Island (KNZY) on the west coast and the other at NS Norfolk (KNGU) on the east coast of the USA, but unfortunately they do not have AFCAD's for AI aircraft takeoff and landing tests. The other two carriers in LM P3D v3.4 and 4.1 are dynamic and are probably sailing on some predefined routes. :(
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      Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

      Post by John Young »

      Thanks Mike. The static ones being docked wouldn't be realistic for AI operations and in any case, adding a hardened deck without having a Gmax model would be problematical. I'm happy to build HMS Queen Elizabeth at the end of the project for the UK F-35B's, but I don't really want to tackle a Nimitz class as well. I owe Brent a carrier too.

      We are nearly there with the F-35B package for FS9. Steve has done some great work with the FDE's, eliminating the need for animated lifts completely for the SRVL models when clearing a ski jump, yet landing in a very short distance:

      Image

      Once I have Steve's final FDE's I'll be sending the package first to Hartwig to calibrate the take-off over the Pax River jump and also to Brent for the landing pads he has built into his sceneries.

      I got the first LOD of an F-35C into FSX this afternoon and it's come up very well indeed. I'll press on with that while the F-35B's are being finalised.

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      Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

      Post by mikewmac »

      Hi John,

      This probably isn't anything you would want to use, but I finally found at least one static carrier at sea in P3D v3.4 and v4.1. It is a fairly basic version of the USS Kitty Hawk (CVN-63) located just southeast of the Golden Gate Bridge off San Francisco. Of course it would need a carrier airport .bgl file including a deck polygon to harden the deck and an ocean flatten if anyone wants to use it for some AI air operations.
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        Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

        Post by John Young »

        Thanks Mike, I'll have a look at that. San Francisco is only 175 miles from Lemoore, so setting up flights from there to the carrier would be good. The challenge will be to make a hardened polygon and sit it precisely over the deck without having the model source file. The AFCAD file and flatten shouldn't be a problem.

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        Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

        Post by Woogey »

        The Carriers in FSX and P3d are default objects that Microsoft Built. There are two different version a Low detail, and a higher detail example. Both have hardened decks from the start. They are static objects, but I believe that Microsoft did turn the high detail one into Ai for the "Acceleration" mission packs that came with the FSX Default Hornet.

        Of Note, Simworks Studios have found a way to get Ai to land and takeoff from a moving carrier. Simworks are currently building their own Nimitz Class Ai model to complement their Naval Assets. It might be beneficial to contact Alex Vletsas info@simworksstudios.com to collaborate?

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        Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

        Post by John Young »

        Thanks Woog, but I don't really want to get bogged down with carriers for the "C's" when there is so much work to do on the aircraft. I've just got the "C's" into P3Dv4, but I still have the "B" conversions to do, which will be a pig because of the large number of animations. Then there's the airfields to go with them. After that comes the "A's" for the 3 sim versions and some scenery options. Then follows HMS Queen Elizabeth for the "B's". At some point my RAF Marham will need an update to accommodate the UK F-35B's when they arrive there.....

        I'll start setting up the airfields for the FSX/P3D "C's" tomorrow and I'll see if there is something straightforward I can do to enable the carrier that Mike mentioned, but that's about as far as I want to go on water for now.

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        Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

        Post by mikewmac »

        John Young wrote: 08 Jan 2018, 20:21 Thanks Mike, I'll have a look at that. San Francisco is only 175 miles from Lemoore, so setting up flights from there to the carrier would be good. The challenge will be to make a hardened polygon and sit it precisely over the deck without having the model source file. The AFCAD file and flatten shouldn't be a problem.

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        John,

        Woogey is right. I just verified that the Kitty Hawk off San Francisco already has a hard deck. While I was on board I noticed that it was a very basic and not too detailed model. It almost looks like a modified remnant from FS8/FS9.

        Also the real Kitty Hawk was decommissioned on 12 May 2009 and was the last oil fired US Navy carrier, so it is certainly not something that you would probably want to use for anything but testing.

        Maybe there is one of the more detailed carriers like the two docked ones out at sea, but I haven't been able to find them in the three locations that the ones in FSX were located at, which by the way are southwest of Quam (PGUM), northeast of Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (KPWT) and northeast of NS Everett (KPAE).
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          Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

          Post by Woogey »

          @John, sorry I did not mean to request extra boat work, just meant to be informative about the Default carriers mainly.

          @Mike, the more detailed Carrier is a Late Nimitz Class if I remember right either CVN-76 or -77. It is in the Default Scenery Library, so it should be pretty easy to place a new one at the location of your choice, and then build an invisible airfield on top of it. Just a thought.

          Has anyone updated Henry’s NAS Lemoore yet to P3d standard? I updated the AFCAD to get the TAXIways to be visible, but haben’t Finished placing all the Line shacks and clutter that were part of the original AFCAD. Now that Instant Scenery 3 is no longer working on my system, I can not complete the update! 😞

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          Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

          Post by John Young »

          That was a useful and interesting exercise. I placed 3 default carriers just off my test airfield in Scotland. All have hard decks that I was able to park on.

          This is an FSX screen shot:

          Image

          The very detailed carrier, furthest, is great, but has aircraft on the deck that would get in the way of the F-35C's. The middle one is too basic. The nearest one is great too, but has a fault with the shadows

          These are the same carriers called from the P3Dv4 library:

          Image

          The very detailed carrier, furthest, no longer has the aircraft on deck. The middle one is too basic and the nearest one has no aircraft on deck and no shadow problem.

          Solution - the detailed carrier is good for P3Dv4. The carrier without the aircraft is good for FSX if users turn off shadows.

          Next step will be to try and position an invisible AFCAD on the deck to enable the F-35C's to operate. I just need to decide the geographical location first - in range of Lemoore (Pacific), or Eglin (Gulf of Mexico)?

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          Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

          Post by mikewmac »

          Nicely done John.

          It was a bit of a circuitous route to get there, but it looks like you finally got something you can use. :smt023

          I never even thought of doing that. :oops:

          You probably know this, but what I always did in FS9 using AFCAD2 was determine the carrier deck elevation above sea level, create the AFCAD with this elevation and then create a gray apron polygon to the shape of the deck within the AFCAD. This gave me both a hard deck if necessary and provided a nice outline of the deck that helped with placement of parking spots and taxiways.

          Good luck my friend. :D
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            Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

            Post by John Young »

            I have the carrier nicely set up 100 miles south of Eglin in the Gulf of Mexico Mike. I made the AFAD as you suggested and I also looked up how we did it for Ark Royal and HMS Ocean. I also have an ocean flatten at 0ft with an 800ft long apron link in a separate scenery area sitting above the carrier area in the FSX scenery library. However, while the AI F-35C shows, it and the AFCAD are sitting on top of a mound while the carrier deck is above that:

            Image

            I'll grab a bite to eat and refresh my brain - it's obviously something simple I've missed.

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            Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

            Post by Joecoastie »

            John,
            Looks like there's another ships CO and bridge crew who are going to be disciplined for running aground !
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            Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

            Post by John Young »

            I'm tearing my hair out at the moment Joe. It's even more frustrating knowing that I've done it twice before with other carriers and I have the files as a reference. I'm going to try making the files with AFCAD rather than AFX in case that makes a difference.

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            Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

            Post by mikewmac »

            John Young wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 16:18 I'm tearing my hair out at the moment Joe. It's even more frustrating knowing that I've done it twice before with other carriers and I have the files as a reference. I'm going to try making the files with AFCAD rather than AFX in case that makes a difference.

            John

            John,

            I think the problem is with your ocean flatten. It should be 800 feet wide and long enough to extend from behind the stern to in front of the bow. For example the ocean flatten for your HMS Ark Royal in FSX was ~1250 feet long and 800 feet wide. Also as you know it is imperative that the ocean flatten bgl file load before both the carrier airport AFCAD and carrier scenery object files.

            To assure this I always placed my ocean flatten file, AFCAD file and carrier scenery object files in the same addon scenery folder with the name of the ocean flatten file starting with the latter A. For example for you HMS Ark Royal in FSX its ocean flatten file was named AF2_AOF7.bgl, its AFCAD file was named AF2_HMS7.bgl and its scenery object file was named HMS_Ark_Royal_ship_object_with_wake_OBJ.bgl.

            Hope this is helps you sort it out.
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              Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

              Post by John Young »

              Solved it Mike. I came to the same conclusion by trial and error. Rather than have the flatten in a separate scenery area with a higher priority in the library, I put it in the same folder as the carrier object and AFCAD. Hey presto -mound gone, carrier floating nicely and one F-35C operating from the deck. I'll show you tomorrow, once I've done the juggling act and populated the deck without conflict and I've added a wake and bow spray.

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              Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

              Post by mikewmac »

              John Young wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 17:22 Solved it Mike. I came to the same conclusion by trial and error. Rather than have the flatten in a separate scenery area with a higher priority in the library, I put it in the same folder as the carrier object and AFCAD. Hey presto -mound gone, carrier floating nicely and one F-35C operating from the deck. I'll show you tomorrow, once I've done the juggling act and populated the deck without conflict and I've added a wake and bow spray.

              John

              That's great John. Glad to hear that you got it all sorted out. :D
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                Re: F-35 Variants (FS9, FSX and P3Dv4)

                Post by mikewmac »

                John Young wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 17:22 I'll show you tomorrow, once I've done the juggling act and populated the deck without conflict and I've added a wake and bow spray.

                John

                John,

                I'll be interested in seeing how effectively you can apply the FSX/P3D push back work around in the limited space on the carrier deck. I had a very difficult time with that on your JY HMS Ark Royal. Fortunately you have a little more space on a Nimitz class carrier.
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