HMS Ark Royal Task Force

[mikewmac]

Yes indeed, I've just tried that. It's a Gmax source file which is ideal, but unfortunately reverse engineering means producing a 3dmax file for import into Gmax. When it's there I can see the ramp model but I can't determine how the hardening has been applied.

I've e-mailed Stevo, so we might get there yet.

John Y.

John,

Just in case you missed my prior post, I did a quick FS9 AI test with the UK Mil "Ski Jump" placed at RAF Wittering and an AI Sea Harrier just plowed right through the ski jump prior to rotating for its normal takeoff. Whatever was done to harden the ski jump for user flyable aircraft didn't seem to work for the AI Sea Harrier that I tested with.

[RKE]

Just to clear something up, since there appears to be some confusion:
AI aircraft cannot use curved or sloped surfaces, ever. They will always remain at whatever airport altitude is set in in the AFCAD file until takeoff.

UI/User aircraft can use curved or sloped surfaces, but apparently there's a trick to how at least the former works with regards to stuff like ski jumps etc.

[John Young]

I had a message back from Stevo, who built the UK2000 ramps and he was able to give me an idea of what to do. I've just been experimenting and this is what I tried with a test copy of Ark Royal:

- Cloned the model in Gmax and selected the whole of the deck including the surface of the ski jump.

- Detached the deck and ramp surface selection from the clone and deleted the rest of the clone parts to leave the original model plus the cloned zero thickness deck and ramp as a single part sitting over the top of the original model.

- Attached a "platform" modifier to the cloned deck surface/ramp just created to make it hard and invisible.

- Set up the test Ark Royal at my test airfield and placed myself in the default Cessna on the rear deck. With no raised AFCAD to support me, I was half expecting to fall through the deck, but I didn't. I was even more pleased when I pushed the throttle forward and reached the ramp. Hey Presto, I went straight up it:



I'll quit will I'm ahead for today, but tomorrow I need to test the technique in the Task Force proper. I need to ensure there's no conflict with the AFCADs, the existing deck hardening and of course the AI. Looking promising I think.

Aircraft shadows need to be turned off as they cast themselves above the ramp surface.

John Y.

[hawk_sh]

I do not understand much of the first half of your post, but the picture speaks for itself.

Good work.

[Victory103]

For the FSX'ers to check, I had the same small stutter with the escorts, but otherwise the swapped in FSX native SHARs work beautifully... VTOL is very cool to watch. Too bad Nick's AV-8B can't do the same, I would have deployed USMC MEU's all over the FS oceans.

[david.harwood]

I'm waiting for someone far cleverer than me to add this sort of AI to some of the other carriers available in FSX and I guess FS9. I can understand it can't be made to work with add-ons such as AI carriers and the VRS TacPak and moving carriers but due to the large number of carrier models now available maybe it can be done as static scenery as in this case. I know that flight sims generally ignore the military aspect of flight but the private sector seems to now be even greater in the production of military aircraft, airbases and airfields and AI aircraft and flight-plans.

I must learn how you guys do what you do so that I can stop putting all this pressure on you to do more work but just the thought of the Nimitz or Enterprise having take-off, landings and touch and go's fascinates me greatly.

[mikewmac]

For the FSX'ers to check, I had the same small stutter with the escorts, but otherwise the swapped in FSX native SHARs work beautifully... VTOL is very cool to watch. Too bad Nick's AV-8B can't do the same, I would have deployed USMC MEU's all over the FS oceans.

Sorry about the stutters Chris.

Earl Watkins static and pilotable Duke Class frigates were never intended for an application like this, but they were so nicely done I couldn't resist using them.

[campbeme]

Adding mipmaps to the textures will help / resolve that. Currently there are no mip maps on the Duke class.

[bismarck]

What a wonderful new signature in your post, Mike...

Giorgio

[mikewmac]

What a wonderful new signature in your post, Mike...

Giorgio

Not too surprising that you would notice that first Giorgio.

[John Young]

Update on the working ski jump facility for user aircraft.

I've successfully set up the hardened ramp at the Task Force location in the English Channel in FS9 and Mike and I can confirm after independent tests that it works fine with user aircraft. I was never expecting it to work with the AI Harriers because they will just follow the AFCAD.

The replacement model doesn't have a hard ski jump in FSX unfortunately because FSX uses a different method of attaching the platform parameter. We can't convert the whole package to FSX, but I've just run a test by converting the Ark Royal scenery object to FSX native code and applying the hardening the FSX SDK way. I set it up at my FSX test airfield and without any AFCADs I was able to take off in a Cessna up the ramp.

I'll need to do some more work tomorrow to apply FSX textures and place the ship model over the AFCADs in the English Channel. I can convert those to FSX format also. Provided all that works, and it should, I think I can offer an alternative file to enable the ski jump for user aircraft in FSX too.

John Y.

[John Young]

I've managed to get a default Beech Baron to go up the ramp of Ark Royal in FSX as a user aircraft, having converted the ship to FSX Native code and applied an FSX platform surface to the deck and the ramp. The only problem is that I throw up dirt as I travel along the deck. I've tried removing the effect assignment in the aircraft.cfg file but it still persists. If it were an airfield, that would be easy to fix, but with the AFCAD structure of the ship it's more complicated and I don't really want to mess with it. Going up the ramp in the FS9 model is fine.

The other problem is that the alpha channel in the rails on the frigates is causing a bleed through of the sea. I can't fix that as I normally would, because it's not my model and I don't have the file in Gmax format. Has anyone who has tried the ships in FSX managed to fix this please?

John Y.

[mikewmac]

I've managed to get a default Beech Baron to go up the ramp of Ark Royal in FSX as a user aircraft, having converted the ship to FSX Native code and applied an FSX platform surface to the deck and the ramp. The only problem is that I throw up dirt as I travel along the deck. I've tried removing the effect assignment in the aircraft.cfg file but it still persists. If it were an airfield, that would be easy to fix, but with the AFCAD structure of the ship it's more complicated and I don't really want to mess with it. Going up the ramp in the FS9 model is fine.

Have you tried any other FSX pilotable aircraft John? It may be an FSX Beech Baron specific issue rather than a function of the AFCAD.

Assuming that FSX works like FS9, you can't just remove a base effect file from the aircraft.cfg file to eliminate its use because the sim will just default back to it even though it is no longer present in the aircraft.cfg file. The workaround for this is to create a dummy effect file with no emitter, particle or particleattribute data in it and replace the default effect file in the aircraft.cfg file with it. For example the fx_jeai_merlin_tchdwn.fx effect file has no data in it and this prevents any undesirable touchdown smoke with the vertical takeoff and landing models.

My guess is that the dirt=fx_tchdrt is the culprit parameter and the use of a dummy replacement fx_no_tchdr.fx effect file might prevent the problem. Unfortunately this workaround might have to be done for more than just the Beech Baron and is therefore may not be practical.

Perhaps experimenting with the HMS7 AFCAD would provide a more universal workaround and if you give me a copy of your FSX HMS7 BGL file I will try a few things with the AFCAD to see if we can prevent this problem.

The other problem is that the alpha channel in th rails on the frigates is causing a bleed through of the sea. I can't fix that as I normally would, because it's not my model and I don't have the file in Gmax format. Has anyone who has tried the ships in FSX managed to fix this please?

You might just have to create a true AI Type 23 Duke Class Frigate to get around this problem.

[John Young]

Oh Magic, Magic, Mike! Using an empty effect file does indeed eliminate the dirt problem. Now we have a fully functional FSX ski jump for FSX user aircraft as well as for FS9.

You deserve a true AI Type 23 Frigate! That would also fix the stuttering problem properly. I know where else it would come in handy too.

John Y.

[mikewmac]

Oh Magic, Magic, Mike! Using an empty effect file does indeed eliminate the dirt problem. Now we have a fully functional FSX ski jump for FSX user aircraft as well as for FS9.

Was it only the FSX Beech Baron that had the problem John?

If not we probably need a more universal fix.

You deserve a true AI Type 23 Frigate! That would also fix the stuttering problem properly. I know where else it would come in handy too.

Sounds like a great idea to me, but I don't have to do all the work..

[John Young]

No it's a simple fix Mike and I suspect it affects all user aircraft using the ramp, although they are only really going to be Harriers. I asked Dave Harwood to test the hardened .bgl and he also reported dirt being thrown up.

The AFCAD runway under the visible deck should prevent the dirt being thrown up, but I'm not sure why it doesn't. I'll put a copy of the FSX hardened Ark Royal object file in your personal folder, just in case you can come up with a solution - I think you have FSX?

In the meantime, I'm going to see what's involved in making a Type 23 frigate.

John Y.

[david.harwood]

John, Mike,

I've changed the 'dirt=' text lines for all the aircraft that I would think of using on a RN carrier such as the Harrier, Merlin, Seaking and a couple of others and I now have no issues at all with ski jump launches and dust spray in FSX.
I can have a nice smooth rolling take-off and vertical landing with absolutely no issues in any way. Only took a little while to change the text in the aircraft.cfg and well worth it.
Yes it would be nice to have a fix for the dirt spray but a Cessna has no right to be on a carrier in my opinion so its easy enough to change the text for the appropriate aircraft.
Many thanks again for the extra time and effort you have put into to this fantastic little add-on.

[mikewmac]

No it's a simple fix Mike and I suspect it affects all user aircraft using the ramp, although they are only really going to be Harriers. I asked Dave Harwood to test the hardened .bgl and he also reported dirt being thrown up.

The AFCAD runway under the visible deck should prevent the dirt being thrown up, but I'm not sure why it doesn't. I'll put a copy of the FSX hardened Ark Royal object file in your personal folder, just in case you can come up with a solution - I think you have FSX?

In the meantime, I'm going to see what's involved in making a Type 23 frigate.

John Y.

John,

It's certainly a simple fix, but could become arduous for anyone that wants to try flying off the ski jump ramp with many different aircraft.

I do have FSX and actually use it for most of my FS flying.

I have an idea that may or may not work, but I'll give it a try and let you know.

At least you have a pretty good Type 23 Frigate as a visual model to work from. If I can be of any help, please don't hesitate to ask.

[mikewmac]

John, Mike,

I've changed the 'dirt=' text lines for all the aircraft that I would think of using on a RN carrier such as the Harrier, Merlin, Seaking and a couple of others and I now have no issues at all with ski jump launches and dust spray in FSX.
I can have a nice smooth rolling take-off and vertical landing with absolutely no issues in any way. Only took a little while to change the text in the aircraft.cfg and well worth it.
Yes it would be nice to have a fix for the dirt spray but a Cessna has no right to be on a carrier in my opinion so its easy enough to change the text for the appropriate aircraft.
Many thanks again for the extra time and effort you have put into to this fantastic little add-on.

You're welcome David,

John deserves the biggest thank you for doing all the heavy lifting on the hardened ski jump ramps for both the FS9 and FSX HMS Ark Royal models. He is an amazing developer and is a great pleasure to work with.

[TheFoufure]

Great package !!!

I just download it and install it. Fabulous !!!

I'm impatient to have the version with "operational" ski jump. Actually, my pilotable aircraft pass throug the ski jum, and not over it.


John, some years ago, you realise HMS Ocean scenery I think. Is it always available ? It' ll be great to add it to this pack with Merlin traffic


Thanks a lot for all your greatfull job for FS community.