Military AI Works

Is there any place left where the base packages for the Tornados can be downloaded? If so, can you please point me to it?

Download the German Armed Forces GAFFTC package that was made by MAIW. The PAI/FMAI Tornado came with that package.

Thank you , Josef. I am aware of most packages that have the Tornado models included. But in almost all cases I can point to the model base packages in my AI reference; I would like to do that for the Tornados as well. But I have not found ai_tornado.zip anywhere.

ai_tornado.zip is on Avsim.

Tornado ADV by Fernando Martinez.

John

Thanks, John. Jeez, never post before coffee
Yes, ai_tornado.zip is on AVSim. What I was actually trying to say is that this is the only package I have found. I am looking for the base packages for the remaining models (GR.1, GR.4, IDS, AMI).

As far as I understand it, because of Project AI's EULA, the IDS package will never be available again. When Project AI shut down, all of their stock was being handled by fly away simulations, but they have now gone to paid subscriptions and I believe all of the PAI material was removed. I hope to be proven wrong.
So the only packages they are available in, are the few that MAIW have done.

Well, at least for every repaint there is a model files somewhere and the reference will tell you where to find it.

are all the model's by Fernando Martinez i mean the GR1,GR4,IDS,AMI if so would Fernando give his permission to host these on a third party site, like mine i have all the model's and would upload them ?.

To the best of my knowledge they are all from Fernando, Ray. Or does anybody knows better?

I tried to contact him already, but to no avail. He is one of the vanished elders, Ray
Without doubt the best for the customers would be to have a basic model pack with all his models included hosted on AVSim/FlightSim.

I was tempted several times to do just that, because his Mirage 2000 base pack is there as well.

Again, from what I remember, Fernando gave all of the rights for the IDS models to PAI, to which they applied their EULA. So even if Fernando gave his permission, LEGALLY you still would not be able to upload them. This has come up in the past before, and one of the former PAI masters (GrahamS I think) would be able to explain more.

According to rumour: Because of this, Fernando released his ADV models into the public domain, along with others models that he did; not long after this, I remember seeing a post on a forum from him saying that he was stopping designing for FS as his studies were more important. As far as I know, nobody has heard from him since in regards to simming. If you can, and know how to get hold of him, it may be a help?

As far as posting it up to avsim/flightsim - yes, like Martin I have been sorely tempted to do it myself, and see what happens. Whether anyone would be willing to go the lengths and persue a civil action is one thing, but also be aware that the managers at flightsim/avsim would surely be aware of the problem, and not host the files due to that reason.

In which case - a private hosting would then be the only solution really.

Please do not get me wrong, I do not condone piracy or copyright theft: but I think that these models are particularly unique, and still very popular amogst the military FS community, and some sort of "understanding" should be agreed upon by "someone". It seems wrong that a popular model such as this should be spirited away because of one extinct groups policy toward ownership.

I think the only reason it is still in this state of flux is that to originally install the Tornado, you needed their own installer and THAT is what contained the EULA.

Yes, that sounds familiar, Daryl.

According to rumour: Because of this, Fernando released his ADV models into the public domain, along with others models that he did

So the question is if AMI/IDS/GR.1/Gr.4 was for PAI or not. Looking at the name of the air file it might as well be. Here is the model/texture matrix for the Tornado:

ADV
sim --> PAI_TOR_FMAI_V6
model --> ADV
textures --> tornadoadv_t.bmp

GR.1
sim --> PAI_TOR_FMAI_V6
model --> GR1
textures --> pai_torgr.bmp

GR.4
sim --> PAI_TOR_FMAI_V6
model --> GR4
textures --> pai_torgr4.bmp

AMI
sim --> PAI_TOR_FMAI_V6
model --> AMI
textures --> pai_torami.bmp

IDS
sim --> PAI_TOR_FMAI_V6
model --> IDS
textures --> pai_torids.bmp

More smoke and mirrors if you look in ai_tornado.zip.

ADV?
sim --> Lear45 (!)
model --> tornado
textures --> tornadoadv_t.bmp

delbydoo wrote: As far as posting it up to avsim/flightsim - yes, like Martin I have been sorely tempted to do it myself, and see what happens. Whether anyone would be willing to go the lengths and persue a civil action is one thing, but also be aware that the managers at flightsim/avsim would surely be aware of the problem, and not host the files due to that reason.

....

I think the only reason it is still in this state of flux is that to originally install the Tornado, you needed their own installer and THAT is what contained the EULA.

Yes, I agree, Daryl. And nobody here wants to give a "bad example". So if Graham stumbles across this, maybe he can comment on it or can imagine an idea how we can legally make a zipped base package of the model files.

After all everything is accessible - only not very much convenient and clear for the first-timer who wants to make one of Andy's, Chris's, Daryl's or Mark's wonderful repaints airborne.

This is the lowdown, as I believe it.

All Tornados were originally destined for PAI.
The IDS ones were released through that org and therefore their rights apply.
The ADV model was to be released through PAI as well but Fernando changed his mind as, I believe, PAI were dragging their heals in getting it released. There may have been other issues as well, not that I am not aware of any nor will I speculate about. So The ADV model was released through Avsim.

MAIW has blanket permission from Fernando to use all his models, however that does not mean that we can re-publish his packages uploaded to PAI.

This is a prime example as to why all Developers should strongly consider placing there freeware onto more than one website. It's nice to give your base organisation the first option to release your AI aircraft, Airport package or Scenery object but then also have a time frame in mind which to release the said to other freeware websites like Avsim and Flightsim.
Eventually all of my stuff, including my source files will probally end up on these sites for others to play with and improve upon, its always easier for the next generation of AI developers if they don't have to fully reinvent the wheel, as is the case for example with the F-16 and so many other AI which are now stuck for ever more in FS9 native and not updatable to new block versions.
cheer's,

Most of the posts in this thread contain valid information. (That includes the reason for the ADV model being released to the public domain)

You may, or may not, be surprised to learn that I am entirely unable to say what the current state is with Flightsimmer.com. That is to say, I do not know if it will reappear, or not. I do not, however, believe the intention is to close down completely. You may not be aware that the site suffered from an intense spam attack which continued unabated for around nine months, towards the end of which I was personally clearing around 200 posts per day.

What I can say is that MAIW have permission to use the Tornado in official packages, hence the release a short while ago containing the Tornado.

Unfotunately, the term 'packages' would not, in my view, include an archive containing just the aircraft in question.

Let me put it like this - I do not want to see any of the models in the PAI library, or for that matter any of the other files in that library, disappearing. The files were delivered to the keeping of PAI by their respective authors so that they could be made available to the FS hobbyist. It is an unfortunate fact that the legal tie ups at that time have become an incumbrance and time has shown that this was probably not the best way to go.

Could I ask that you leave this with me for a while and I will update you when possible.

Graham,

Nice that you are just around at the right moment - I hope you are well. We wait and see if you can come up with any news.

Hi Martin,

Yes I am very well, many thanks for asking. I call in here regularly, so I don't miss much

I hope everyone is well also.

Please do not expect an instant response, it may take a little while to sort out something.

As Louis has said (sung) it so beautiful... "We have all the time in the world"
Thank you, Graham.

Gentlemen, just a quick note to assure you that I have not forgotten you. I await reply from the person concerned and have sent a reminder. We all need to know what is to happen to the library files .....

I am sorry I have not reported back for some time, but I have attempted to give as much time as possible for this matter to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

I will not wait any further before you are updated on the situation.

The website Flightsimmer.com, which is the current site for the PAI file library, has been showing the front page only with the remainder of the site offline since March 2013. The file library has, therefore, been unavailable since that time.

The Administrator, for that website, Kyle Zinn, also owns/administers a number of other specialist websites, not simulator sites. All of those sites have not been updated since 6th March 2013 but remain apparently online, as does the main page of Flightsimmer.com. All of those other websites were being updated on a daily basis prior to March 2013 and several were giving daily update emails which also ceased at around the same time.

I was the only person overseeing the daily running of Flightsimmer.com at the time. A spam attack had been in progress for some months prior to March 2013, in fact it started around August 2012, and I was clearing some several hundred spam posts daily from the forums while trying to get some response from the "administrator". You can imagine my frustration, especially as I was having extreme difficulty, to say the least, in getting Kyle to respond to any communication.

I have been attempting by all means available to me to contact the administrator for a further six months but I must report that no response of any description has been forthcoming.

The situation must be assumed to be, therefore, despite the file library having been set up to be available to flightsim hobbyists throughout the World, that the files will not be made available again in the short term. Those who have permission to use files may assume that permission continues until you are informed differently.

I do not know what has happened but can find no explanation for the disappearance of the administrator and no sensible reason for the continued existence of all the website main pages. If anyone out there knows something, please let me know. If I can assist anyone further then again, please let me know.

If the site does eventually become active again, I will not be there.

Many thanks for your patience.