Military AI Works

JMAI B-52B in ai, out of the box, fresh from jmai_b52_traffic1.zip, aircraft nose falls through the ramp, rocks back and forth then settles down, and rest with the nose in the ramp.

Can you confirm that this is in FSX?

Firebird wrote:Can you confirm that this is in FSX?

No its FS9.

OK, has any FS9er had this problem with the B-52B as I didn't see it on my system?

I have loaded these AI A/C as follows:

PC Win7 FS9 all B-52's B-H at multiple bases in USA/UK/Spain. All observed to take-off and land correctly

PC WinXP FS9 all B-52's B-H at multiple bases in USA/UK/Spain. All observed to take-off and land correctly

Laptop Win7 FS9 As above

Laptop XP FS9 As above

I have always left the Aircraft as strictly AI and therefore have only ever amended parking codes in the Aircraft.cfg file.

Thanks Pete,

This is troubling as to why you get so many problems with Mike's B-52s. I believe you when you say about the fact that this is straight out of the box so I won't question it. I wonder if it's a scenery/afcad height difference problem.

Steve,

Just for you (because I believed it had been established in the other thread on this subject that the complainant was using the aircraft as a flyable one).

B-52 G & H tested separately at Ochey, France. I made the aircraft visible in FS9 aircraft selection and I change the manufacturer in aircraft.cfg to my system, which in this instance is US MIL SAC. If it is selected with the 'Y' slew switched OFF it does exactly as described...the tail disappears under the runway as it tips up. With the 'Y' slew switched ON the aircraft sits under control. This action isn't uncommon for an AI aircraft in my meagre knowledge of FS9.

I commend you for your patience.

Chris

Just tried the B-52B as AI at my test airfield. It spawns in a stable level state and taxis/takes off normally:



I also tested down to 10 fps, which sometimes induces a stability error, but it was fine when stuttering along too.

If you change the aircraft type to "0" (flyable) in the .air file and try and fly it, the aircraft tips back on it's tail, just like in the B-52H in the other topic, which is about setting up the aircraft as flyable in order to make it visible in the aircraft menu.

I'm not sure that the problem when used as AI is due to the AFCAD, although a duplicate one might cause an elevation problem, but the aircraft should still spawn level, but above or below the intended height. If the aircraft spawns nose down but settles level, that's usually a static_pitch error and if it stays nose down, that's usually a deeper dynamics error (contact points, CG, or MOI perhaps). Those were all fine in my test when the aircraft is used as AI.

It might be worth setting the aircraft up as AI at another airfield just to see if the same thing happens there. If it does, it will almost certainly rule out the AFCAD.

John

wbunnell
Are we not understanding what you are trying to do here
Are you trying to make it visible in the selection menu so that you can select it and follow it?


Gary

Gents

The airport elevation due to afcad or ADE changes will only make the aircraft float.
Incorrect contact points make the aircraft sink into the ground.

If you are using AirUpdate or similar program to change the aircraft air and CFG this will possibly give the symptoms you are witnessing.

The program BBQhideAI will make the aircraft visible in the menu without changing anything else in the .air file.
When you are done you just change it back.

Use AI aircraft for AI and UI aircraft to fly and all is at peace.

John

JohnTenn wrote: Use AI aircraft for AI and UI aircraft to fly and all is at peace.

John

Agree....

Garysb wrote:wbunnell
Are we not understanding what you are trying to do here
Are you trying to make it visible in the selection menu so that you can select it and follow it?


Gary

The B model was downloaded from AVSIM “jmai_b52_traffic1.zip”, the zip file was downloaded to a spare folder as it was in the zip file, and it was used as it came in zip file.

It was not altered in any way, as implied.

Every other B-52 C,D,E,F, G and H files work the way their supposed to.

I used KBAD for all B-52 Test.

That confirms what you said originally, for this issue.
Now what is interesting is what chrisb said. He was able to replicate your problem only with one option switched off when selecting an aircraft and switching it back on eliminated the issue.

Does this info help at all? Do you have that option switched off?

wbunnell wrote:

Garysb wrote:wbunnell
Are we not understanding what you are trying to do here
Are you trying to make it visible in the selection menu so that you can select it and follow it?


Gary

The B model was downloaded from AVSIM “jmai_b52_traffic1.zip”, the zip file was downloaded to a spare folder as it was in the zip file, and it was used as it came in zip file.

It was not altered in any way, as implied.

Every other B-52 C,D,E,F, G and H files work the way their supposed to.

I used KBAD for all B-52 Test.

It was just a thought

Gary

Firebird wrote:That confirms what you said originally, for this issue.
Now what is interesting is what chrisb said. He was able to replicate your problem only with one option switched off when selecting an aircraft and switching it back on eliminated the issue.

Does this info help at all? Do you have that option switched off?

Forget the previous post about tail going into the ramp, that subject is mute.

I was in no way trying to use any JMAI B-52s for flying! All I wanted was to have the aircraft visible, so I could see them without making a flight plan.

I was using it in a flight plan, all 16 of them, at KBAD, they all did a nose dive into the ramp.

How does an aircraft, downloaded in a zip file, as ai aircraft, go straight to the flight plans, without alterations in any way, fall into the ramp nose first?

Could you possibly zip up the flight plan you are using and the AFCAD for KBAD and post here? We could then try and replicate what you are experiencing.

If we can replicate it, we might be able to figure out what's causing it.

John

John Young wrote:Could you possibly zip up the flight plan you are using and the AFCAD for KBAD and post here? We could then try and replicate what you are experiencing.

If we can replicate it, we might be able to figure out what's causing it.

John

I can’t quite understand hat different flightplans can have on the outcome of of this problem, I’m sure you could make some flightplans, maybe not. Here you go.
AC#1,AF7101,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,16:24:23,310,F,7101,KBAD,18:00:00,16:58:18,310,F,7201,KBAD
AC#2,AF7102,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,17:24:19,310,F,7102,KBAD,17:00:00,17:58:15,310,F,7202,KBAD
AC#3,AF7103,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,15:07:34,310,F,7103,KBAD,17:00:00,15:29:53,310,F,7203,KBAD
AC#4,AF7104,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,16:08:54,310,F,7104,KBAD,17:00:00,16:31:24,310,F,7204,KBAD
AC#5,AF7105,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,15:07:23,310,F,7105,KBAD,17:00:00,16:20:41,310,F,7205,KBAD
AC#6,AF7106,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,15:10:12,310,F,7106,KBAD,17:00:00,15:31:28,310,F,7206,KBAD
AC#7,AF7107,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,15:41:40,310,F,7107,KBAD,17:00:00,16:02:56,310,F,7207,KBAD
AC#8,AF7108,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,15:50:59,310,F,7108,KBAD,17:00:00,16:12:25,310,F,7208,KBAD
AC#9,AF7109,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,15:40:15,310,F,7109,KBAD,17:00:00,16:01:31,310,F,7209,KBAD
AC#10,AF7110,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,15:41:19,310,F,7110,KBAD,17:00:00,16:26:19,310,F,7210,KBAD
AC#11,AF7111,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,16:41:26,310,F,7111,KBAD,17:00:00,17:26:15,310,F,7211,KBAD
AC#12,AF7112,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,17:10:26,310,F,7112,KBAD,17:00:00,17:44:21,310,F,7212,KBAD
AC#13,AF7113,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,18:10:22,310,F,7113,KBAD,17:00:00,18:44:18,310,F,7213,KBAD
AC#14,AF7114,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,17:39:15,310,F,7114,KBAD,17:00:00,18:13:22,310,F,7214,KBAD
AC#15,AF7115,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,18:39:12,310,F,7115,KBAD,17:00:00,19:13:08,310,F,7215,KBAD
AC#16,AF7116,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,18:27:15,310,F,7116,KBAD,17:00:00,19:01:21,310,F,7216,KBAD
AC#17,AF7117,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,18:42:22,310,F,7117,KBAD,17:00:00,19:16:17,310,F,7217,KBAD

Well those FP's look like they will never work

AC#1,AF7101,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,16:24:23,310,F,7101,KBAD,18:00:00,16:58:18,310,F,7201,KBAD

What this is saying is every 24hours you take off at 17:00 fly till 16:24 next day land back at KBADthen take off again at 18:00 the day before ever 24 hours

Should be something like

AC#1,AF7101,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,20:24:23,030,F,7101,KBAD,07:00:00,12:58:18,030,F,7201,KBAD

as an example

it will now do TNG from 17:00 to 20:20 then TNG 07:00 to 12:58 every 24 hours (also changed 310 to 030 as this is telling it to do circuits at 31,000' now 3000')

note times are GMT

Try that

Gary

wbunnell wrote:I can’t quite understand hat different flightplans can have on the outcome of of this problem, I’m sure you could make some flightplans, maybe not.

Yes I know how to make flight plans. It just saves me time, trying to help you.

So, I extracted the 16 B-51B aircraft from the jmai_b52_traffic1.zip and built an aircraft.txt file. I used your flight plans (16 aircraft) and your AFCAD and tested at 17:00 GMT when all the aircraft depart together.

There was no observed problem:



The aircraft park level and depart level.

I'm stumped now. I can't really see how a conflicting AFCAD would cause your aircraft to spawn nose down into the ramp. The traffic file won't do that. The logical explanation is that your FDE is different to the set in the zip.

Just check that your aircraft.cfg file has:

empty_weight_CG_position = 21.0, 0, 0

empty_weight_roll_MOI = 15352310
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 24223159
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 39531785
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0

static_pitch = 0.0
static_cg_height = 11.865

If all those tally, then there's nothing else I can suggest unfortunately.

John

Garysb wrote:Should be something like

AC#1,AF7101,100%,24Hr,IFR,17:00:00,20:24:23,030,F,7101,KBAD,07:00:00,12:58:18,030,F,7201,KBAD

as an example

it will now do TNG from 17:00 to 20:20 then TNG 07:00 to 12:58 every 24 hours

Off topic but you forgot the TNG flag Gary. In your example the aircraft will just make 1 circuit.