Routing question

[sprocky]

I started to create some flightplans. Which ones - I will disclose later

I read about an operator getting a receiving a contract for cargo ops out of the US. Although I do not know the distination I am sure they will go to Afghanistan. Also I heard they might operate to/from McChord. The question is now: since the aircraft they operate will not make it from McChord to Kabul/Bagram/Kandahar in one move - where do you think will they have to refuel? Their range is about 2,300nm.

Thank you for your help!

[jetmax]

I started to create some flightplans. Which ones - I will disclose later

I read about an operator getting a receiving a contract for cargo ops out of the US. Although I do not know the distination I am sure they will go to Afghanistan. Also I heard they might operate to/from McChord. The question is now: since the aircraft they operate will not make it from McChord to Kabul/Bagram/Kandahar in one move - where do you think will they have to refuel? Their range is about 2,300nm.

Thank you for your help!

It could be anywhere and would most likely change weekly. The contractor is looking to make the most money as possible, so they are going to stop where gas and the landing fees are the cheapest. It does not have to be a military base. Once they have there cargo at Dover or where ever, it is all up to them to get it to the destination.

My recomendation is to have them fly to where you want to see them. This is the stratigy I employ when making flight plans.

Cheers

[delbydoo]

A good bet will be Ramstein and/or Mildenhall; our Tristars usually stage through Akrotiri for all sorts of reasons, and they're going to kill several birds with one stone so to speak, to carry supplies and personnel for other locations as well as the end destination.

[f4nutter]

lajes LPLA or keflavik BIKF maybe

[james84]

If you want to fly different section within 2300nm each, here is a possible routing
McChord>McGuire/Trenton>Keflavik/Shannon>Ramstein/Mildenhall/Aviano>Incirlik/Manas>Kabul

If you are flightplanning some C-17s (IIRC their range is 2400nm) you can imagine they get some gas from some tanker too!

[CelticWarrior]

This site is great for direct routes for aircraft and might give an idea where to refuel and the distances involved.

That example of a flight from McChord to Kabul would make it seem that stopovers at Anchorage and somewhere in northern Asia would be shorter.

[jetmax]

This site is great for direct routes for aircraft and might give an idea where to refuel and the distances involved.

That example of a flight from McChord to Kabul would make it seem that stopovers at Anchorage and somewhere in northern Asia would be shorter.

While the polar route would make sense economically, getting diplomatic clearance through Russian Airspace would be tricky, especially if you are contracting for the US Military. Here is another site you can check.

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/ETAR

[LEBTowerGuy]

As far as McChord goes, I would suspect Bangor as an initial tech stop eastbound. However, many of the cargo flights in and out of McGuire and Dover use Frankfurt-Hann (EDFH/HHN) quite often. Westbound flights may go through Hickam AFB, or Anchorage then down over Japan. A World Airways flight (MD11) does TCM-ANC-RJTY after that I am not sure where it goes if it goes on, or just returns. Now if your "company" is flying the Lear 35s then they appear to only be hitting EFD, EIL, and FAI.

[clickclickdoh]

A World Airways flight (MD11) does TCM-ANC-RJTY after that I am not sure where it goes if it goes on, or just returns.

Back when ATA was flying the same routing with L-1011s, it went down down to Iwakuni before going back up.

[Greg]

Going via Japan, or in any case westbound from the states towards Afghanistan would imply overflying China and that's a big no-no!

When I worked there at the Tower, practically all the AMC stuff that left Kabul back to the States or vice versa went via LERT Rota although that's outside your 2300 NM range. But as said, civilian contractors will use whatever airport suits them. Still, not a single contracted civilian cargo came or went via Chinese airspace.

[LEBTowerGuy]

A World Airways flight (MD11) does TCM-ANC-RJTY after that I am not sure where it goes if it goes on, or just returns.

Back when ATA was flying the same routing with L-1011s, it went down down to Iwakuni before going back up.

That would make sense, since IIRC World took over a lot of ATA's DoD contracts.

Going via Japan, or in any case westbound from the states towards Afghanistan would imply overflying China and that's a big no-no!

When I worked there at the Tower, practically all the AMC stuff that left Kabul back to the States or vice versa went via LERT Rota although that's outside your 2300 NM range. But as said, civilian contractors will use whatever airport suits them. Still, not a single contracted civilian cargo came or went via Chinese airspace.

From my research on the various DoD contractors, I think a lot of them are stopping at Aviano AB before heading up to Germany and then on to Bangor.

[sprocky]

Hm, strange. Where is my post?

Mods, is there a problem when somebody is posting at the same time? I experienced this several times before. Writing a reply but it did not show up...

Ok, again - short version.
Silk Way has teamed up with World Airways. I heard rumors they will pick up the cargo at McChord - but have no written evidence. Anybody having better information on this contract? Will Silk Way really use their IL76's (their two B744Fs are not available for this) for this contract or will they wait for the B763Fs they will receive this year?

Anybody wants to do beta tests? Might be ready next week (excluding the contract above).

[ahs06]

Check on flightaware. You can normally find a flight or two from large AMC bases. You can also check civilian airports with AMC gates. There's also a live tracking option where you can type in an airline code and it will show active flights including the military charters. Good luck. You may also want to talk to the folks at AIG. They always seem to amaze with the work they put in and the resources they have.

[Firebird]

The key thing here guys is that you have to avoid Russia, China and Iran. Once you do that it does become a lot easier to guess a possible route.

[Greg]

Russia not necessarily. There's a bilateral agreement between the USA and Russia and another one between NATO and Russia to transit Russian airspace for the benefit of ISAF.

[sprocky]

Russia not necessarily. There's a bilateral agreement between the USA and Russia and another one between NATO and Russia to transit Russian airspace for the benefit of ISAF.

Wow, did not know that.

[jetmax]

Russia not necessarily. There's a bilateral agreement between the USA and Russia and another one between NATO and Russia to transit Russian airspace for the benefit of ISAF.

Wow, did not know that.

Yes that is true. However, when you add fuel and cargo weight, most planes can not make the trip non-stop, even over the poles and there are not to many places you would want to land in Siberia. All the Widebodies we got in at Bagram came from Germany (Evergreen, Atlas, etc...).

Cheers

Scott