Raptor Pilots Refuse to Fly Jet

[MIKE JG]

This is getting interesting......

F-22 Pilots Go On TV To Highlight Aircraft's Problems

Two Air Force F-22 Raptor pilots have taken the unprecedented action of explaining thier refusal to fly the aircraft to a national television audience. Appearing in uniform and without the permission of their superiors, Maj. Jeremy Gordon and Capt. Joshua Wilson told 60 Minutes interviewer Lesley Stahl they've invoked federal military whistleblower protection in their open defiance of an Air Force decision to keep flying the aircraft even though they say the majority of pilots are suffering health problems because of something wrong with the oxygen system. As AVweb has extensively reported, some, including both Wilson and Gordon, have become disoriented in flight, something that happens at a rate that far exceeds the norm for military aircraft. The officers say pilots have been issued oxymeters and the Air Force briefly equipped the Raptors with charcoal filters in the oxygen system to remove contaminants (the filters themselves caused some pilots to cough up black mucus and have since been removed) but nothing has been done to solve the actual problem.

The F-22 was grounded for months while engineers looked for that root cause but when they didn't the aircraft was returned to service. After their inflight incidents, Wilson and Gordon said they wouldn't fly the aircraft anymore and have been threatened with dismissal. They also said that while not all pilots have experienced the hypoxia-like symptoms in flight, most complain of the "Raptor cough," a chronic hacking that is common thread among these elite pilots. They said other pilots likened themselves to laboratory animals because the Air Force is using them to gather data on potential sources of the problem. Senior Air Force officials interviewed by the program said they intend to keep the aircraft flying. "Ideally I want the risk as low as possible. I'm not able to drive it as low in this airplane as I am with others because of this unknown circumstance, but I have driven it down to a level where we believe we can safely operate the airplane," said Gen. Michael Hostage, commander of Air Combat Command. Both pilots said they'd like nothing better than for the aircraft to be fixed so they can fly it again, calling it "invincible" as a fighting platform but Wilson said it shouldn't be flown until it's fixed. "I think we grounded it for a reason, you know, back a year ago. We haven't done a single thing to fix it. So I think we need to reassess why we got back in the air in the first place."

[MIKE JG]

This is the link to the 60 Minutes interview:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id= ... contentAux

[jetmax]

Maj. Jeremy Gordon and Capt. Joshua, thank you for your service, but it is no longer required... Really? Do these two clowns think going on National TV and exposing a weakness in one of our front line fighters to the entire world is a good idea? I veiw this as a viloation of the UCMJ and Whistleblower protection does not apply.

If you don't want to fly the jet, get out.

[Victory103]

jetmax, would you say the same to an Mud Hen driver if the aircraft had a potentially deadly undiscovered issue outside of normal non-combat flight risk? Everyone in military aviation, and aviation in general, accept the inherit risk associated when they climb in the seat.

If I put myself in their shoes, being forced to fly an unsafe aircraft and just "collect data" and hope as many of the other guys probably are "it will not happen to me, always to the other guy" might work for some, but to have the issue happen to me (as both of these guys experienced) would change my "gung ho" attitude to fly the aircraft until it's fixed. I can only imagine big Army telling me that we ordered a bunch of bad rotorblades, but go continue to do your job and hope nothing will happen until we can fix it.

Of course, lots of talk on this on 2 other forums I'm on, one USN and the other USAF. Many people don't know that the Hornet has OBOGS issues as well, granted nowhere near as many incidents as the Raptor has had in it's short operational life span.

Not sure about doing this on national TV as you mentioned, as both these guys are ANG and could possibly unless there are set circumstances transferred to another State unit since they both came from other airframes. The AF can do a few things at this point, either their careers are completely finished or the very unlikely AF coming out and saying good job to them for exposing this issue that they are trying so hard to cover up.

[Cowboymarine1593]

here is my thinking on the ordeal, when i spoke out on something or did something that was fround upon while in the air force i got my ass in a sling. but these guys have a real risk that does not invovle the inherit risks that the rest of the pilots in the air force have, Jetmax im gonna say it you sound like a TI, thats not always the best prospective to put yourself in. when you are loosing your ability to control the most expinsive fighter in the air, there is defenintly something wrong. And to be honset my ass in a sling or not and i know orders are orders but when it comes to this situation ordered to fly or court matial cause im disobeying the order due to unlawfully risking my life, especially in a way thats out of my hands completely, cause from the way it sounds so dissorented to even find the emerency ox ring, if they are that disorented ther is no way to even find the eject handel, thats a point where i throw the towel and say im not flying the thing till its fixed for safety and medical purpouses

[djnocturnal]

i'm not for our pilots flying an aircraft that isn't safe but...its another thing to go on national television with it. I have to agree with Jetmax.

[Rotten Ralph]

Im sitting on the fence with this one. I agree to a certain extent to both sides of the argument. To go on TV is a bit drastic, but I suppose if no one else is listening & this might have just saved a pilots life if the military take notice now.
Surely it can't be that big of a job to convert the Oxygen system from say an F15/16 to work with the F22?, bearing in mind that I don't know anything about these things.

[scottr5213]

i'm not for our pilots flying an aircraft that isn't safe but...its another thing to go on national television with it. I have to agree with Jetmax.

As former military I agree.

[jetmax]

I guess I was a little harsh but the fact of the matter is, there are proper channels and going to the media is not one of them. We in the military have to be very mindful of what we say in public. This does nothing but erode the public's confidence in the USAF ability to perform its mission. If they have a real problem with this jet, they should have taken it to their congressional representatives.

In my heart, I do not believe ACC would put them in an unsafe jet. If they don't trust their leadership, they should probably separate.

[ahs06]

Looks like its not just the pilots getting sick.
http://www.kcra.com/r/31038002/detail.html

[MIKE JG]

Getting interesting:

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has demanded the Air Force take measures to make America's most expensive fighter plane, the F-22 Raptor, safer for its pilots in light of an ongoing, potentially deadly problem with the plane's oxygen system, a Pentagon spokesperson said today.
As a recent ABC News investigation found, for more than four years pilots for the F-22 Raptor have reported at least 25 incidents of experiencing "hypoxia-like symptoms" while at the controls of the $420 million-plus-a-pop jet. Hypoxia is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain and is characterized by dizziness, confusion and disorientation.
READ ABC News Investigation: Fatal Flaws With the F-22 Raptor
Among other precautions, Panetta ordered the Air Force to expedite the installation of an automatic emergency back-up oxygen system to the planes, spokesperson George Little told reporters.
Currently, pilots who believe they're experiencing oxygen system problems have to manually reach for a ring in a cramped corner of the cockpit to activate the emergency back-up system. The activation ring itself was already such a problem that the Air Force recently re-designed it for the entire fleet to make it more accessible.
In one fatal incident in November 2010, the Air Force said one of its pilots, Capt. Jeff Haney, had been too distracted by trying to activate the manual back-up system after a malfunction cut off his primary oxygen completely and he accidentally flew his plane into the ground.
READ Exclusive: Family Demands Truth in Air Force F-22 Pilot's Death
One of two pilots who recently spoke out about the F-22's dangerous problems on CBS News' "60 Minutes" said that he once experienced such disorientation due to apparent hypoxia in mid-air that he struggled to even locate the manual emergency oxygen system.
Panetta also ordered flight restrictions on the F-22 "effective immediately" that require it to stay relatively close to possible landing strips in case of emergency. In Alaska, the F-22 will no longer fly long-distance training missions, and instead those missions will be taken on by older F-15 and F-16 fighters, Air Force spokesperson Lt. Col. John Dorrian said. Panetta also directed the Air Force to provide him regular updates on the progress in the investigation into the planes' problems.
Air Force Grounds Full $79 Billion Fleet, No Root Cause Found
Despite multiple investigations into the plane's oxygen system and a grounding of the entire $79 billion fleet for nearly five months last year, the Air Force has been unable to determine the source of the problem.

The Air Force admitted earlier this month that it was such a concern that a "very small number" of pilots requested not to fly or to leave the F-22 program altogether.
The Air Force has long maintained that the rate of incidents is exceedingly rare -- 25 compared to the thousands of missions flown without incident -- and has been working hard to determine what is wrong.
The Air Force said in March it planned to implement an automatic emergency back-up oxygen system as one of 14 recommendations made by a scientific advisory board convened to investigate -- ultimately unsuccessfully -- the root cause of the hypoxia-like symptoms. Pentagon spokesperson Capt. John Kirby said the Secretary knows the Air Force is working hard but wanted to "add his muscle" to help find answers.
Despite multiple forward deployments, none of the jets in the $79 billion fleet have ever flown a combat operation for the United States since going combat-ready in late 2005.

[Victory103]

Now we have our good ole Eagles and Vipers standing alert, glad we only have 3 active duty F-15C squadrons!

http://www.adn.com/2012/05/15/2465689/p ... -f-22.html

[MIKE JG]

What gets me is that we sent a man to the moon over 40 years ago and we can't even fix an oxygen problem on an aircraft that doesn't even leave the atmosphere!

Glad to see Panetta stepping up to the plate but it's too little, too late in my opinion.

[fishlips]

Now where is my Apolo 13 handbook.