Military AI flightplan hints and tips?

[SeanG]

I have started building a retro package for RNZAF Skyhawks out of Nowra and Ohakea, based on interviews with former air and ground crew from 2 and 75 Sqns.

I've built AI flightplans before, but only airliner/ga/normal stuff, now I want to do something a little more interesting, but I have a lot of questions, all of which I am sure MAIW have achieved

My quesiton is: Is there a FAQ/Hints and Tips for building military flightplans? I know how to drive Traffic Tools etc, and build my source files in a text editor. What I'm looking for is some advice on the specifically military aspects of this. Things like; How do I get AI to fly faster than 250 knots at low alt,and how do I use dummy AFCAD's as waypoints for a low level cross country?

I've made a start on Nowra traffic, with 2 sections departing for the range, one at low level, the other hiigher, both using an outbound turn-point, and a single ship doing pilot conversion, cross country and TNG's back at Nowra.

Any advice appreciated

SeanG

[missionrecon]

Hmm, the idea of having two simultaneous sorties launched to follow specific waypoints AND then RTB simultaneously sounds like it would require a bit of math and trial and error. AI traffic from what i've seen tries to hold 250kts but doesn't stay under that cap even below 10K. So setting up a low level cruise alt and high cruise speed might help there. But then it'll have to loiter between carefully placed dummy waypoints until your high altitude counterpart can haul ass up to mission altitude. Right?

[Firebird]

The 250kt limit is imposed by the AI engine whilst in controlled airspace under 8000', I think (although it might be 10000').
The trouble is that unlike real life FS9 does not go into details of assigning controlled as in real life. It assigns controlled airspace from the ground up and does not even try to take on the task of mapping things like MATZ's and TMA's. So its a blanket coverage. There are some areas where you can get your cruising speed at low level but there are more hit and miss than something you can plan for, as far as I know.

On the dummy waypoint they are really very simple invisible afcads. Have a look at any of our packages that use them and load one into ADE/AFX/AFCAD and have a look at one.
For flightplanning purposes you have your aircraft do TNGs at the dummy's. This does mean that they will make approaches with the gear down. Remember as well that the flight plans will have to be IFR, or they will touch down.
Also there is a limit on the difference in height between one airfield from the previous one. It can't be of a height greater than around 2500' lower, or the aircraft will disappear on finals when that limit is reached.

[SeanG]

The 250kt limit is imposed by the AI engine whilst in controlled airspace under 8000', I think (although it might be 10000').
The trouble is that unlike real life FS9 does not go into details of assigning controlled as in real life. It assigns controlled airspace from the ground up and does not even try to take on the task of mapping things like MATZ's and TMA's. So its a blanket coverage. There are some areas where you can get your cruising speed at low level but there are more hit and miss than something you can plan for, as far as I know.

On the dummy waypoint they are really very simple invisible afcads. Have a look at any of our packages that use them and load one into ADE/AFX/AFCAD and have a look at one.
For flightplanning purposes you have your aircraft do TNGs at the dummy's. This does mean that they will make approaches with the gear down. Remember as well that the flight plans will have to be IFR, or they will touch down.
Also there is a limit on the difference in height between one airfield from the previous one. It can't be of a height greater than around 2500' lower, or the aircraft will disappear on finals when that limit is reached.

Thanks Firebird
Ahh, the IFR thing will help.. I assume that if they try to touch down at an AFCAD without runways they will just disappear? So an IFR missed approach will work better than a VFR T&G?

I had guessed that there would be a controlled airspace aspect to the speed restrictions. I wonder if it is possible to create an uncontrolled airspace for a specific area, and if that would even apply to AI? The area where these flights take place is out to sea, and in a military restricted area...

The issue of having both sections arriving back at base together is just, as "missionrecon" pointed out earlier, a matter of maths and trial and error. And not a really big deal in the big scheme of things.

So far I have the "strike" section heading out to a dummy waypoint, but they don't return, probably due to the VFR/IFR issue, and the "Fighter" section heading out (currently to another airfield, but I'll build a waypoint for them as well) at higher alt, so it is starting to come together. I have to decide where the "target" scenery will be then modify the location of the inbound waypoint to match. I'm toying with the idea of having the strike package separate prior to the target so that you'll have aircraft coming from multiple angles, timed to arrive overhead in a short space of time... If I can get it to work it should look pretty cool

Thanks for the tips guys... back to Notepad++ and the calculator!

SeanG

[Firebird]

I assume that if they try to touch down at an AFCAD without runways they will just disappear? So an IFR missed approach will work better than a VFR T&G?

Not quite. The afcad still has to have a runway, or it will not approach, but you make it very narrow, and short and can also make it almost invisible. The reason you do IFR and not VFR is that a VFR approach will do a 'roller' which means a touchdown and if the waypoint is overland the chances are that the ground is not flat and so the aircraft can go underground. If the waypoint is in the air you will get tire smoke and tire marks.

As you say an IFR approach results in an 'overshoot' which helps to cover up the afcad.

As I said before have a look at any of our waypoints and they will give you a big helping hand.

[SeanG]

Thanks again Steve,
Another observation: when I set a plan as IFR they fly at 2000ft, whereas VFR they fly down to the alt I set (in this case 500ft...) So I am guessing there is a limit to the alt that IFR will fly?

For my purposes an actual TNG on my waypoint runway wont be that bad, as it's 100NM off the coast, so would only look funny if you were to follow the aircraft all the way out there

I saw an interesting thing following one of the low level flights (while trying to find the lowest safe altitude for the plan), when the AI impacted a hill... it left touchdown marks and tire smoke, then disappeared... got me thinking, so watch this space for something cool (I hope)

SeanG

[Firebird]

I must admit that i thought I had aircraft flying at 1000' but it might be outside of controlled airspace and it was some time ago.
Another to watch out for VFR flying aircraft will not avoid obstacles or terrain IFR ones will auto their height to remain safe.

[SeanG]

I must admit that i thought I had aircraft flying at 1000' but it might be outside of controlled airspace and it was some time ago.
Another to watch out for VFR flying aircraft will not avoid obstacles or terrain IFR ones will auto their height to remain safe.

That could account for the 2000ft when flying IFR then. There are hills which are a shade over 350ft, that they pass over, so I guess they go up, but don't come back down?
I figured out how to get the strike package down low, by adding another waypoint, as a marshal point before the strike, then they can have a 100ft cruise to the target... still only at 250ft, but better being low

SeanG

[Garysb]

Sean
We normally only use one waypoint in any leg ie take off -waypoint - land (need not be home airport)
any more may cause problems


Gary

[SeanG]

We normally only use one waypoint in any leg ie take off -waypoint - land (need not be home airport)
any more may cause problems

Thanks Gary,
I'm doing some experiments around waypoints, dummy AFCADs and timing, so I'll let you know how they all work out... Trial and error is my constant companion

SeanG

[stephan]

( I am new to MAIWI downloaded and it's downloads) I downloaded Kadena airbase. Nice job. Far better than the default FS9 ghost town. Question it,I downloaded the ai for that airbase,and got only the textures. IF I can fnd the AI craft with the model and air files needed to get the textures airborne,do I use a program like TrafficTools to ad the flight plans and aircraft files,or are the flight plans a kind of auto instal when you get the needed files for the AI ac for that airbase? Thanks and thank you for the downloads. They do add quite a bit to the sim.

[Firebird]

Can somebody help stephan out please. As I am away I can't check out the packages to see what the problem is.

[JohnTenn]

Stephan

The NBAI F-15c and F-15d models are in many of the packages. Copy the folder. Rename it to xxxxx Kadena so that you can find it later. Remove the texture folders. Insert your new aircraft texture. xxxx folders.

Replace the aircraft references [fltsim.0] etc so that the refernces are unique.

The flightplans should already reference the aircraft. Place the traffic xxxx.bgl into your FS9/Scenery/world/scenery folder.

The MGAI KC135 is in the MAIW download library. Use the search function to look-up Kadena.

Hope this gets you started.

John