AI aircraft landing next to the runway

[hawk_sh]

I made some flightplans for AI aircraft I am currently painting to see all the animation during start up, taxiing and landing.
They are supposed to taxi out, take-off, do one circuit and land again - and it works.

However what I am observing is that the AI aircraft land next to the runway - next to it, not short of the runway.
The offset distance to the runway centerline also is always different.
Then during the landing roll out the AI aircraft are trying to get back to the runway centerline.

I assigned the flightplans to some other AI aircraft (HTAI F-16, SBAI Mig-29) and it is the same, they also land next to the runway all the time.
So I suppose it is not something aircraft related but something with the AFCAD?

However some visiting aircraft that do IFR missed approaches on this runway seem to be perfectly aligned to it.

Any ideas what could be the reason for this behaviour?

[campbeme]

I made some flightplans for AI aircraft I am currently painting to see all the animation during start up, taxiing and landing.
They are supposed to taxi out, take-off, do one circuit and land again - and it works.

However what I am observing is that the AI aircraft land next to the runway - next to it, not short of the runway.
The offset distance to the runway centerline also is always different.
Then during the landing roll out the AI aircraft are trying to get back to the runway centerline.

I assigned the flightplans to some other AI aircraft (HTAI F-16, SBAI Mig-29) and it is the same, they also land next to the runway all the time.
So I suppose it is not something aircraft related but something with the AFCAD?

However some visiting aircraft that do IFR missed approaches on this runway seem to be perfectly aligned to it.

Any ideas what could be the reason for this behaviour?

Are the F-16 all D models on VFR flight plans?

[hawk_sh]

Are the F-16 all D models on VFR flight plans?

No, a mix of F-16Cs and F-16Ds as well as Mig-29s and Mig-29UBs.

[mikewmac]

Are the F-16 all D models on VFR flight plans?

No, a mix of F-16Cs and F-16Ds as well as Mig-29s and Mig-29UBs.

I have two questions:

What is the elevation of the airport where this is happening?

Are all of these AI using the HTAI F-16 FDE or a derivative of it?

[hawk_sh]

What is the elevation of the airport where this is happening?

Airport elevation is 117m, Swidwin AB/Poland (EPSN)

Are all of these AI using the HTAI F-16 FDE or a derivative of it?

The Mig-29s are from one of the MAIW packages.

The other model is the new Su-22 AI model by Rainer (flusirainer).
I do not know whether this FDE is based on the HTAI F-16s or not.

[petebramley]

I know this may be stating the obvious but are you sure you only have one afcad for that Airport ??






Typo (oops)

[hawk_sh]

I know this may be stating the obvious but are you sure you only have one afcad for that Airport ??

Yes, only the stock AFCAD plus a new modified AFCAD developed from the stock AFCAD.

[Dave Waffler]

I've had that happen to some aircraft and found something didn't quite go right with the air file. I had one plane that bobbed and weaved off the way in, then made a horrific landing. In this one case, I found that if the flaps weren't fully down, then plane made a much better and steady approach

[mikewmac]

What is the elevation of the airport where this is happening?

Airport elevation is 117m, Swidwin AB/Poland (EPSN)

Are all of these AI using the HTAI F-16 FDE or a derivative of it?

The Mig-29s are from one of the MAIW packages.

The other model is the new Su-22 AI model by Rainer (flusirainer).
I do not know whether this FDE is based on the HTAI F-16s or not.

That airport elevation is probably not high enough to cause your problem, so the problem is most likely an AFCAD issue with runway length and/or pattern altitude in conjunction with AI FDE's that give high VFR pattern speeds. The original HTAI F-16C/D FDE causes this exact problem at high elevation airports.

[Firebird]

We had this very issue with the HTAI in one of our packages and we found that the F-16D cfg had somehow got altered from the original version.
Try doing a compare with the original in Henry's download.

[campbeme]

Are the F-16 all D models on VFR flight plans?

No, a mix of F-16Cs and F-16Ds as well as Mig-29s and Mig-29UBs.

Make sure the F-16 have the below section in the aircraft.cfg

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar=1.2
parasite_drag_scalar=1.2
induced_drag_scalar=1.2
elevator_effectiveness=2.0
aileron_effectiveness=1.0
rudder_effectiveness=1.0
pitch_stability=1.7
roll_stability=2.0
yaw_stability=1.8
elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.7
aileron_trim_effectiveness=2.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.0

[hawk_sh]

Thanks for your input so far,

I just did some further testing and after that I have to confess that I have somehow mixed up a few of my observations last night.

Sorry for the confusion.


Short story:
===========
1. Checked my AI F-16 FDE (according to Campbeme's post) --> is correct

2. AI F-16s and also AI Mig-29s are landing on the runway of my own, newly created AFCAD for Swidwin.

3. The AI Su-22 are landing next to the runway of my own newly created AFCAD.

==> Conclusion:
==============
The F-16s and the Mig-29s are OK,
there seems to be an issue with the SU-22 FDE


Long story:
===========
1. When I first set up the flightplans I used a different scenery for Swidwin
(I do not know the author at the moment as I do not have the zip file anymore and there is no readme)

2. AI Su-22s were landing next to the runway in this scenery

3. I used the same flightplans with F-16s and Mig-29s, they were also landing next to the runway.

4. I compared the AFCAD of this addon scenery with the stock AFCAD file.
The runway heading of the addon scenery was off by 1,5 degrees compared to the stock AFCAD.
For me this was the logical explanation for the AI aircraft landing next to the runway.

5. I created a new AFCAD file based on the stock AFCAD to get the correct runway heading.
the other addon scenery including its AFCAD was removed

6. AI Su-22s are still landing next to the runway using my AFCAD file.

7. AI F-16s and also AI Mig-29s are landing on the runway using my AFCAD file.


Further observation:
==================
The AI Su-22s are "landing inside of their traffic pattern",
meaning when I set up a left traffic pattern in the AFCAD file they will land left of the runway,
using a right traffic pattern they will land right of the runway.

[mikewmac]

The other model is the new Su-22 AI model by Rainer (flusirainer).

Where did you get this new Su-22 AI model?

I'd like to take a look at its aircraft.cfg file, but I can't find the download.

[hawk_sh]

I got it from Martin (gsnde).

[Firebird]

If the Su-22 are landing next to the runway when doing VFR circuits but are landing on the runway when doing IFR approaches then the problem is the fde.

What I would do is first work out whether it is a problem with the fde before you start adding afcads to the equation.

If it turns out not to be the fde then do your testing at a known good location, for example I do all mine at the MAIW airfield from the airshow package from years ago.

A rule in software changes is never do more than one change at a time, so new model, new fde and new afcad adds up to confusion.

[hawk_sh]

Just coming back from another round of tests:

Changed the flightplans from VFR to IFR ==> AI SU-22s landing ON runway

[TheFoufure]

Where did you get this new Su-22 AI model?

I'd like to take a look at its aircraft.cfg file, but I can't find the download.

Not yet released to public.

Was downloadable some times ago on a german forum, but not yet available anymore.

[mikewmac]

Just coming back from another round of tests:

Changed the flightplans from VFR to IFR ==> AI SU-22s landing ON runway

I see that all the time when creating AI FDE's. It is much easier to create AI FDE's that work for IFR circuits than it is for VFR circuits due to the much tighter VFR patterns, so I always test with VFR circuits first.

I would love to take a quick look at the AI Su-22 aircraft.cfg file, but if this an unreleased AI model that may not be appropriate.

[hawk_sh]

Thank you Mike,

PM sent.

[hawk_sh]

So the good thing now is that I know that it is not an issue with the AFCAD file.

That means I can go on and build a nice home base for the Polish Fitters