error msgs in FSDS

[jyarddog]

Here's an example. I noticed this after I did a Boolean OP and then used one of the parts as windows from trans. works but error msgs occur.

OutputFile: _temp.MDL
Output file after modification: _temp.MDL
Creating output MDL file: _temp.MDL
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (lower_office)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=1.714062 y=-3.146406 z=-0.071973
warning : Face vertex 1 x=2.205492 y=-3.146406 z=-0.071973
warning : Face vertex 2 x=1.254778 y=-3.146406 z=-0.071973
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (lower_office)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=-1.315781 y=2.932926 z=-0.071973
warning : Face vertex 1 x=-2.098617 y=2.932926 z=-0.071973
warning : Face vertex 2 x=-1.141057 y=2.932926 z=-0.071973
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (lower_office)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=1.236026 y=-3.099376 z=-0.070782
warning : Face vertex 1 x=2.172155 y=-3.099376 z=-0.070782
warning : Face vertex 2 x=1.688463 y=-3.099376 z=-0.070782
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (lower_office)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=-1.123793 y=2.88917 z=-0.070782
warning : Face vertex 1 x=-2.067363 y=2.88917 z=-0.070782
warning : Face vertex 2 x=-1.296136 y=2.88917 z=-0.070782
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (lower_office_bool2)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=-0.726124 y=2.93312 z=-2.091868
warning : Face vertex 1 x=-0.726124 y=2.93312 z=-1.829335
warning : Face vertex 2 x=-0.726124 y=2.93312 z=-0.910471
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (lower_office_bool2)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=0.619282 y=2.93312 z=-0.071973
warning : Face vertex 1 x=0.619282 y=2.93312 z=-0.334506
warning : Face vertex 2 x=0.619282 y=2.93312 z=-1.732597
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (lower_office_bool2)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=-2.826387 y=0.668849 z=-0.071973
warning : Face vertex 1 x=-2.826387 y=0.668849 z=-0.444936
warning : Face vertex 2 x=-2.826387 y=0.668849 z=-0.937855
warning : Degenerate poly detected in file (C:\ABACUS\FSDS 3.5.1\_temp. mesh (tool_bool2)
warning : Face vertex 0 x=-0.694983 y=-0.252208 z=0.330275
warning : Face vertex 1 x=-0.694983 y=-0.252208 z=0.920229
warning : Face vertex 2 x=-0.694983 y=-0.252208 z=0.254968
CRASHTREE nocrash specified, not generating crashtree

[John Young]

The same thing can happen in Gmax. Booleans can disrupt the mesh and cause these and shading problems. I avoid them like the plague.

What I do is make a copy of the file and then delete everything apart from the faulty part. I then detach half the polygons so the part becomes two. I can then test each half for the same problem. A process of divide and conquer will usually get you to the faulty polygon(s). It's then a case of welding vertices or redrawing them.

John

[jyarddog]

I see. `.... vaguely.(hahaa) But I get the idea. I was basically trying to find some definitions to these msgs. These here seem fairly descriptive. My object still compiled ok and looks ok. BTw- Do you know Bill W in Seattle. He and I work together a lot.

Those I have helped over the years I have told to use Boolean as a last resort. They ask why. I tell them well... it's your choice of 60,000 polys or 2 polys! Exaggerating to make a point. Thanx for the info, John. Bob Lacy

[JohnTenn]

My ten cents worth.

I started out using FSDS 3.5 and then got conned into using Gmax.

I use the Boolean cut quite often. Back-up your work before doing it.

The process works better in editable poly mode.

If you are making buildings and want to cut out the inside. Try to do the Boolean subtract operation as early as possible in your process.
The objects must be complete (no deleted faces).
The more complex the model the greater the chance of corruption.

Lastly, I have found that I sometimes have to save the work after the Boolean cut. Close Gmax. Restart Gmax and continue my modelling. This goes for compiling the model also. I think the process might fill up too much of the available memory.

As John Young says try to stay away from using it, especially on a complex model.

John

[VulcanDriver]

I use FSDS 3.51 and the only way I know of cutting out fuselage windows is to split the fuselage in half, then manual remove the polys where the windows are, save it as fuselage 1! Open it and save as fuselage windows then fill in the polys that will be the windows (I use a different material colour) then delete the fuselage polys leaving the window polys. Repeat for the other half. Join both halves of the fuselage and save as fuselage. Then merge the windows you made earlier and they should be a perfect match, make them children of the fuselage parent.

HTH

[JohnTenn]

Another ten cents worth.

Remember each polygon is made up of triangular faces.

The more faces you cut the more faces you create, exponentially.

After each Boolean cut you need to clean up the model by moving and collapsing the new vertices in order to remove the extra faces.

As an alternative:

In order to make, for example, three windows on a side of a building make the box with five length and or breadth segments. Make three height segments.

Move the vertices to your desired size of the windows. The windows are then already made.

You can now move and collapse the vertices around the top and bottom to reduce the number of faces on each side of the building.

I make simple objects to use as templates to position the vertices. Delete the templates after use.

John

[John Young]

John's alternative method is exactly what I use to avoid a Boolean operation. It reduces the chance of corruption and keeps the lighting much smoother, especially on a fuselage. You can also use an inward extrude on the faces created by the vertices to make things like wheel wells and cockpits.

John

[jyarddog]

discuss moving or collapsing vertices, please.

What I do probably causes too many polys but it works and is simple. If I am going to have the user see inside the fuselage I first make as many 'tools' (as required in FSDS) in the shape I need and positioned so they do not touch each other at all. I join them and call the whole shebang.... 'tool'. This is to make one cut. after the Boolean I remove all parts I do not need. The parts I save that match the windows I try to keep but that is what gives me the errors msgs I think.
Then I copy and paste the new fuselage with the holes in it, go to poly mode and flip. Now I have an inside as well as outside. I might make the inside ever so slightly smaller (sometimes interior and exterior textures tend to 'fight')
I did an old 4 engine prop liner like this once......nice inside wallpaper, seats, and such. didn't hurt frame rates, but I would not put 10 or 15 of these in any parking lot! hahaha! I checked this and other statics for poly count. Mine is in the ballpark of most others. I am sure ya'lls method has much fewer polys.
Trouble I have is trying to make a good looking panel. I'm just not good enough to pull that off. Bob

[jyarddog]

I guess there was no interest in discussing moving , collapsing, etc vertices. Where I get some errors msgs is when I use left-over parts like windows that were cut out... moving those back to cover the holes and then do a 'trans' on them and map my alpha texture on them. Works great but often error msgs occur... still compiles though.

[JohnTenn]

Bob

I have used the tutorial for a Cessna 162 by Milton Shupe at sim-outhouse.com.

He describes the whole process very well. The tutorial is for Gmax but the principles remain the same for FSDS.

I have even found video tutorials on the web helpful, even though they were using a different program to model.

Hope this helps.

John

[jyarddog]

very good.