jetpilot1980 wrote: 11 May 2025, 23:35
I wouldn't say MAIW is dead at all... I know I have quite a few things in the packaging / release queue myself:
1. The IL-76 VKP (IL-82)
2. The Carrier Skyraiders
3. Another small carriers scenery package (to show case the Phantoms)
4. Updated AH-64 Conversions where the gun and ball sensor follow the gunners head and the upper sensor follows the pilots head...
5. Dan and I's big 747 package...
Just to name a few... And at the moment I am in conjunction with Dan working on the "family car" version of the Skyraider... This is a preview pic Dan has them in his paint shop now for proper texturing... (hence the off looking colors)...
skyraider 1.JPG
So plenty of exciting stuff to come in the future... Just patience is in order... I know from my end it takes me a lot of time and effort to make these models / conversions (blender work, mapping, MCX work, .xml coding, testing, repainting ect.) and I do have a life outside this place... This is a fun hobby for me but the real world takes priority... I know it takes Dan a ton of effort to do what he does... And I know it takes Martin a ton of effort to package and publish our work... and I know Dan and Martin have lives too... So patience and not assumptions of death... Please...
I have no life so it's easy for me
You should see the list of stuff to do I have planned, quite frankly it's enormous so I won't be going anywhere anytime soon
Dan
"Cluster bombing from B-52s are very, very accurate. The bombs are guaranteed to always hit the ground"
I'm still working on several paint projects, but keep getting off track.
USN F-35Cs USMC F-35B and C F/A-18E and F and for my retro project - A-7 Corsair IIs and T-37s and T-38 all-white. I definitely need to stick to a project plan.
Pleased to report that I have corresponded with Steve (Firebird) by e-mail. He is OK, but has had to deal with some personal issues that came up. That might keep him off the scene a little while longer.
My enthusiastically work on RAF Bruggen was deeply destroyed when at about the same time MSFS2020 was released. An almost 5 year-project was dead as a moment's notice. With MSFS, nobody was interested in FSX or P3D addons anymore although they actually had deserved.
2021 I was deeply disappointed about this and frustrated. 2023 I did a little restart but noticed my skills were not as good as needed for a similar project. RAF Gütersloh was released, and for a little while, my interest in P3D was back again.
For 2 years now, I am focused on my other big hobby, creating rock songs and learning E-guitar which occupies my spare time for the most time.
But now and then I'm back in P3D to fly my beloved aircraft in my beloved sceneries vitalised by my beloved MAIW traffic.
I look in for a short time regularly and I am happy to see MAIW is still alive allthough since MSFS2020 so much has changed. I know I will come back to P3D (and MAIW) again some time, but as many others here around did mention, also many things in real life did change (health of close family and job etc).
I hope MAIW will stay stable...
.....I totally understand your frustration Manfred. With John's recent posts as well, it's all very concerning as to exactly where do we go from here and what the future is for MAIW.
There is no doubt that a great deal of effort has been undertaken during the recent server change, whilst I am sure we are all very grateful for that, it doesn't change the fact that, things are and have been in decline here ( MAIW ) for quite a considerable time.
We are all getting older, and the user base for the Sims that we used a few years back ( FS9,FSX,P3D ) is getting less and less. We have to accept that.
John mentioned this in his post when talking about a recent project completed for P3D and the abysmal number of downloads for it, especially when you consider that we exhibit to a worldwide audience.
It seems somewhat ironic, when Microsoft has finally accepted military aircraft into its simulation ( MSFS2024 ), more and more military user aircraft are being developed and even military scenery, we have nothing here even in the pipeline.
Are we just to be a repository for what we have already created and that's it???
I am fully aware of the issues surrounding developing for MSFS2020 and MSFS2024, but others have not been put off by this ( Ian McCartney for example ) and it hasn't really held him back.
Personally speaking, I believe that MSFS2024 has the greatest potential yet, in terms of what can be achieved. I have an update on progress made which I will be posting shortly in the developer area first and then on the forum here.
I have the FSX version of RAF Bruggen installed and the work you did was brilliant! I am amazed at the talent of the people on this website. Wanted to let you know that I appreciate your work.
Well rest assured I am still old school and still using FSX as my main and only SIM and still download and use FSX models that are released so there are some of us still out there who love the FSX/P3D content that still lurk in the shadows! Please don't stop what you guys do for us old sim users!
Looking at a big picture here, there are two main reasons why MAIW is in a different place to what it was in its heyday.
Firstly, in the beginning their were quite a few developers that were committed to identifying packages to create and set about doing that. They were committed almost exclusively to MAIW.
Over time the number dwindled and we could see that that model was not sustainable. We had to change to what we have now which is the support for individuals creating packages. if we had not have changed MAIW would have died some years ago.
The second and biggest issue has been diversity.
When we started we supported FS9. Over time FSX users got more and more vocal calling for/demanding FSX support. There is nothing wrong with the premise but the issue then becomes the developers wanting to/being able to support both platforms.
It coincided with the start of the decline of of the number of our in house developers. This may be a coincidence, I do not know.
Then we added the P3D crowd to the diversity which made it even worse. I know first hand the difficulty that developers such as John Young had to support all 3 and this lead to his decision to drop FS9 support.
Then we had MSFS/MSFS24. This has split the developer support into smaller factions as I am sure everybody can see it would.
Not only that but the user base has been split into smaller factions.
So in essence MAIW went from a FS9 user base and FS9 support to a FS9/FSX/P3D/MSFS user base and FS9/FSX/P3D/MSFS support base.
Now FS9 support has been reduced by us and MSFS support is sevely hampered by Asobo but we still do want to support it.
MAIW can never be as strong as it once was until the user base and the number of platforms is more unified.
This is why when the decision was taken by John to drop FS9 support I looked at what to move to. I decided that the most likely long term answer was MSFS, despite Asobos issues.
We have been remarkably successful in adapting to changes and that is why we are still here. The thing that will kill us, as it will any org, is the user base. No user base, no org.
We, like you, are watching all developments out there and praying that Asobo are finally getting to grips with their platform and that they stabilise their SDK.
Steve _______________________________________________________ Quid Si Coelum Ruat _______________________________________________________
Well, I am - at least at this moment - firmly committed to P3D v5. I have the flyable P3D aircraft that I like, I can convert FS9, FSX and earlier P3D AI aircraft, flightplans and sceneries to work in P3D v5, so all is well here. The effort of maintaining 2 different simulators is simply too much for me - when I had both FSX, P3D v4 and P3D v5 installed, I got mightily frustrated, because the 24 hours in a day were not sufficient for me to keep everything up-to-date to my liking, so I decided to go with P3D v5 only, because that to me was the best looking of the lot, and even better looking IMNSHO than P3D v6.
I am also choosing to remain committed to Windows 10, until Microsoft produces something better, which - again at this moment - is not Windows 11. Until something better, and with the same flexibility and usability as Windows 10, comes along, then I'll bite the bullet and pay $30 if necessary. After that, it will be either 0Patch or do as many Windows 7 users did, remain without MS support and updates, at least for a while.
In my opinion, we got stuck in two different ways:
1. The technical requirements: As John said (and I am with you, mate), the coercion to always exchange running systems we can work with into new bullshit every 4 to 6 years (and even faster each time...) - which destroys a lot of familar software usage, in most case simply because it is no longer supported.
Okay, you can try to use KI for your work - you can switch to Blender for designing. No, you can't, if you grew up or delve into a special programme which was popular those days - called Gmax. Bad luck. What I want to say is, some time you can't or wont learn new skills.... or you are tired of trying it.
Again and again and again, always if any new stuff obsessively seems to let die older things - even if they working fine.
Will I ever buy an electric vehicle, only if it exist? NO WAY! I love my current car! But if all cumbustion engines wouldn't suddenly work anymore - same thing!
2. Evidently there is no simple way to create military AI traffic for MSFS! Here we got stuck even John and Pete did unhuman efforts and experiences to get a solution on that.
That's the main reason in my opinion - if it had been as simple as jumping from FSX to P3D, MAIW still would be the reference site for MSFS AI traffic. I remember John's and Pete's initial enthusiasm, partly because the first impressions and experiences look so damn great.
My 2 cents:
MSFS killed my simming obsession - for a while. In the meantime, I rarely restart my interest into it. Some flight in the Harrier (oh, which also will never appear in MSFS, but the fantastird variant of a Cessna or Mustang - bah) within a 80s era of all fuc.... AI military aircraft I've ever seen in my life.
And: That's another point probably:
John and all of you outstanding AI aircraft developper: YOU DID CREATE ALMOST EVERYTHING which was flying! So if the era will end with P3D, it is hard to find new challenges - partly because you are prohibited from delving into the MSFS world - and probably using your designing tool furthermore.
MAIW may persist, I really hope so, partly because I am a member since 2009.
What springs to my mind at this instant: How about - if possible - adding an additional section for MSFS maybe? Where user at least can talk about their intentions, wishes, suggestions but as well sharing possible success with developing for it. Especially new users could probably help with possible solutions with military AI traffic maybe and portover from those beloved MAIW aircraft. Maybe we could recruit new forces with fresh input to support our senior staff.
This could restart MAIW maybe....
Just a thought...
As with the other sims I am sure that there will be a MSFS section for what you describe, but my guess is that we will only do this once the path has been hardened up by Asobo.
I know what you mean about the aircraft that you can fly in MSFS. For me, my go to aircraft is Dave Garwood's Hunters. They work really well and i enjoy flying from Stanley in them, or flying PI's from North Weald or Northolt.
Not quite a Harrier, I would agree.
Steve _______________________________________________________ Quid Si Coelum Ruat _______________________________________________________
Yes, there are some interesting options how to convert legacy aircraft into MSFS, even the Wilco Harrier. But I don't know anything about its behaviour and its VTOL works.
But to be honest: Here in P3D, I like being back into the 80s and flying cold war missions between Air Bases and training areas. And this together with military traffic.
In MSFS, all military bases dead when you are visiting them. Okay, except for some statics, but that's it.
Flying a cold war jet inside MSFS always is doing sightseeing or visiting an airshow. Cold war jets always are flying by their own, no matter if you fly in formation using programmes like Chase Plane etc. You never will see landing different jets. That's dead and that's nothing I like.
At all forums I am swearing I only will change to MSFS if MAIW will be able to create their wonderful aircraft also for this sim. No MAIW, no MSFS and I will be completely satisfied with what I have so far in P3D.
I assure you, if there is any breakthrough in getting MAIW aircraft into MSFS, MAIW will explode again.
Even if I know about the issues with this platform and the complication with the Asobo difference.
But my hope will not die....
Evening all. As some may know, like John I've put my creative tools to bed for now as Real Life (TM) has demanded a great deal more of my attention and, like Manschy, I've returned to music as my primary hobby. However, as I mentioned in my post in the Developers' forum, I intend to upload all of my projects, complete and otherwise, to the FTP for others to take on if they wish and then distribute - but only via MAIW.
After a lifetime of professional flying, I have no interest in flying within a computer flight simulator. I bought MSFS when it first came out as I thought - like many of you - it would be the next step in the military aviation environment simulation game. It promised so much, but sadly its promise was never fulfilled. MSFS 24 got off to a pretty poor start, but Pete's posts suggest that there is some hope for what MAIW does to be employable in that sim. Let's hope.
Steve is no doubt correct that the development from FS9 via FSX to P3D (and that can be split into pre- and post- v4) have caused some difficulties for developers, but it's in the nature of all things computer-related that the majority move on to the latest usable software as soon as they see it as stable, reliable and an improvement on what went before. MSFS stole much of the casual audience and even when they realised that they couldn't replicate their FS9/FSX/P3D experiences, they were reluctant to abandon their new (and very expensive) software especially as the visual experience was so much better than it had been previously. The dilution that resulted wasn't helped by LM breaking lots of P3D stuff with P3Dv6...
MAIW and its predecessors were born shortly after the air-display world had been at its height (post Cold War) and there was huge enthusiasm for military aviation. Most enthusiasts of the time remembered the phenomenal amount of military traffic that had existed in the 1970s and '80s (of which I was part!) and were keen to relive those days. Those enthusiasts and their memories, like us, are ageing rapidly and they largely aren't being replaced by a new generation as military aviation has shrunk to a very small proportion of its size in 1990, and the airshow scene has almost disappeared entirely - and those shows that still exist have very little military content. I was at Duxford for the midsummer show on 21st June. Only five in-service military aircraft participated, and four of those were helicopters. Also, the re-emergence of real-world shooting wars that endanger all of our futures isn't a background that rewards enthusiasm - it's so much easier to enjoy the hobby when there's little danger of the subject of our enthusiasm becoming used in anger.
For those for whom combat is the attraction, there are now a number of very good combat flight sims that cater to them, of which DCS is probably the best. There has just this week been a new version of the ancient Falcon 4.0 released on the freeware market, and of course titles like Call of Duty, Arma 3 and even GTA V allow for air combat in scenarios of varying realism. All of these will also take away some of MAIW's potential audience.
There's no doubt that MAIW faces an uphill task to regain its audience. I very much hope that MSFS24 can be the route to that, but it's very unlikely I'll be part of it.
Manschy wrote: 02 Jul 2025, 11:50
Yes, there are some interesting options how to convert legacy aircraft into MSFS, even the Wilco Harrier. But I don't know anything about its behaviour and its VTOL works.
But to be honest: Here in P3D, I like being back into the 80s and flying cold war missions between Air Bases and training areas. And this together with military traffic.
In MSFS, all military bases dead when you are visiting them. Okay, except for some statics, but that's it.
Flying a cold war jet inside MSFS always is doing sightseeing or visiting an airshow. Cold war jets always are flying by their own, no matter if you fly in formation using programmes like Chase Plane etc. You never will see landing different jets. That's dead and that's nothing I like.
At all forums I am swearing I only will change to MSFS if MAIW will be able to create their wonderful aircraft also for this sim. No MAIW, no MSFS and I will be completely satisfied with what I have so far in P3D.
I assure you, if there is any breakthrough in getting MAIW aircraft into MSFS, MAIW will explode again.
Even if I know about the issues with this platform and the complication with the Asobo difference.
But my hope will not die....
.....Manfred, all of this can already be done, here is MSFS2024 featuring MAIW Woodbridge ( Retro Test Airfield just like the type you mention ! ) and JYAI A-10a's AI Traffic Aircraft. These fly btw.
Yes, Pete. I know about those and all these shots of early progress made me very optimistic about it.
But after some months, I couldn't see any enthusiastic mood incomprehensibly or any ongoing progress here around, neither from developers and - more strange to me - users interest. So my question: Got developping military AI traffic for MSFS stuck because of lack of developpers interest or frustration because of lack of users interest? Finding an answer to this will find the answer if MAIW is at end of life....
I for one can't understand that user's have so little interest in military AI traffic in MSFS. My assumption: MSFS is degenerated into a sight seeing simulator where military aircraft are no longer needed at last...
So just my 2 cents: If military AI traffic find it's way into MSFS (2024), I could potentially imagine to change my intentions - mean, maybe to make another attempt in redeveloping Brüggen and/or Gütersloh - assuming that it might be possible to redesign animations as well.
My problem additionally is to decide which aircraft I would have to buy chiefly: Harrier? No realistic models so far. Tornado? I also would like to own most of all others but I would have to rebuy them - instead of still having all already in P3D. That's a bummer indeed so far....
But possibly it will take a lot of time until most AI aircraft could be converted into MSFS format. And maybe I would use the time to buy them one after another.... Who's to say?
...clearly things aren't going to change around here anytime soon. You have all given your reasons as to why you are sticking with what already have.
For what it is worth, I mentioned in the developer area, that after keeping an eye on things with MS24 since its release, regarding the AI engine and ATC, there are signs that things are improving. The numerous beta's have shown this to be the case. However, there are still issues that remain and have been there since SU10 of MS20. I am therefore under no illusion, that we will ever see some of the AI engine features, that we have seen before in previous generation Sims.
Whilst this is unfortunate from our side of things, it hasn't stopped other developers from developing. There are various flyable military Aircraft that have been released for MS20 and I am sure they will be upgraded for use in MS24 in time. Military sceneries are also becoming available for both.
There must be a market for this, otherwise they just wouldn't bother.
Again, as said in the developer area, we have the support from Kai (AIG ) to get our Aircraft into MS20/MS24 using legacy FSX MAIW flight plans via the AIG/TC app. This is a fantastic achievement in its own right.
You can see from the screenshots earlier in the post, conversion of previous generation MAIW military Airfields is possible and to use them in MS24.
As I can't single handily promote MSFS anymore, I'll wish you all the best with which ever way you choose to go forwards and leave you all to it.
