A small doubt

[Javier Tapia]

Hi!
Soo.. i was watching Jarhead on the TV last night when a question appeared in my mind.

What is the duties of the USMC?
I mean, for example, Chilean marines are shipborne infantry with the mission of storming beaches and beeing the spearhead on any inavsion, but after the beach is secured the army comes up and finish the job.

But on all movies and documentaries of the US military I get to see Marines fighting way inland. I can understand that the act as expeditionary forces, but shouldn't there be a moment in wich the army take control of the job?

Thanks

[Ford Friendly]

What is the duties of the USMC?
...snip...
But on all movies and documentaries of the US military I get to see Marines fighting way inland. I can understand that the act as expeditionary forces, but shouldn't there be a moment in wich the army take control of the job?

Ah. Good question and perhaps the single most asked question by non-Marines. It's complicated by the lack of differentiation and explanation from Hollywood as you say.

So, the present situation is that while Marines are seen by most civilians as expeditionary forces, they have been used as "quasi-Army" units for nearly 100 years - from WW1 to the present. Theoretically, they shouldn't be used to hold inland ground for extended periods. That's only theory, however. Politics normally trumps theory or reality.

Here are a few situations and explanations that complicate things for Hollywood portrayals and the real-world.

Examples
1. When insufficient Army units have been available or were not available in a timely manner, the Marines have been used as traditional ground force infantrymen. WW1, Desert Storm
2. When conflict was likely to be confined to coastal/littoral areas demanding heavy US Navy involvement. WW2 Pacific theater, Beirut.
3. When inter-service politics in the Pentagon interferes, Marines have been used to maintain their position within the military command structure. Vietnam
4. Post-Vietnam - when they/the Navy were the nearest available force to "project power". Liberia

The interservice rivalries of the US military command structure make things complicated. Remember, technically, the Marines are subordinate to the Department of the Navy. So they and their Congressional supporters not only use Navy-weight politics in their arguments, they fight for autonomy from the Navy when it suits their purposes (ex., budgetary, command independence, etc).

Where the Army lost control of fixed-wing aircraft (for the most part) in the 1950's, the Marines successfully argued that they were routinely inadequately supported by non-Marine aviation forces and were allowed to maintain their own air assets for close air support. Part of their argument was that, once landed on the beach, Navy forces could sail away leaving the Marines stranded on their own without air support. This is also why Marines were allowed to develop and retain helo units just as the Army was.

Similarly, with the technological developments of tactical nuclear artillery and missile warheads and with the increasing range and accuracy of these weapons,, Marines successfully argued that they could and should have control of their own artillery, up to and including tactical nukes.

So, the Marines with their own air force and artillery argue they are the "whole package". The one argument they cannot overcome is the fact that they are the smallest service in the US armed forces. So, ultimately , eventually, they need to declare "mission accomplished and leave the area, be relieved (usually by the Army) at some point, or face annihilation if faced by far superior forces - a totally unacceptable occurence.

Wrapping up, I repeat my earlier statement: Politics normally trumps theory or reality.

This has veered a bit from the intial question, but hopefully provides some insight for you.

Of course, all the above is just my perspective on the answer/question.

[Javier Tapia]

Thanks Ford,
My theories on the subject were similar, I suppose that there is also must be some marine pression to be present in every conflict, mabe as a tradition

Anyway, thanks again

[Jumpshot724]

The USMC was originally created to A) aid the Navy in shipboard protection back in the colonial days and B) act as an extremely well trained ground unit, trained to an extent where they are as effective in small numbers as a much larger number of regular Army personel. The Marines were to be specialists at landing/coastal operations.

The USMC's main role in war was to protect it's ship from intruders during sea battles. As you know, in those days ships would come together and exchange cannon and musket fire. To counter this, Marines would actually climb all the way to the top of their ship's rigging and saturate the enemy's decks with gunfire/grenades. This is why the USMC is known for their rifle skills, because they all had to in fact be sharpshooters to hit a target on a moving ship from that high up. To make sure there was no "friendly fire" the USMC adopted the quatrefoil, a cross shaped braid that was on top of their caps in order to tell friend from foe. To this day USMC serive caps still have a quatrefoil sewn to the top.

The USMC's main claim to fame is of course landing operations, of which they have conducted ~300 in their existence. To this day landing/spearhead operations are the USMC's bread and butter. WHile in WWII Army personel did take part in beach landings, they merely adopted the USMC's tactics and techniques and in most cases were actually trained by the USMC since the Army then and to this day does not train or have the means to train for those types of operations.

To this day the Marines act as the "spearhead" for all US military conflicts. The Army acts as a "cleanup and occupation crew" but also assists the Marines on the frontlines at some times. They also act as security for all US government installations such as the White House and all US embassies/consulates overseas. Because of this, the MSG (Marine Security Guards) are the only other military units other than Navy Seabees who fall under the command of a civilian. They also provide security for all US Naval bases as well as maintaining the tradition of providing security for all US Naval vessels.

Since the USMC is classified as a rapid reaction force, able to deploy itself to an AOR and also sustain itself using it's own equipment, it can be classified as not only an Army in itself but also a large special forces unit. In order to complete it's objectives the USMC relies on speed and violence of attack, quickly overrunning their enemies.

I think thats it lol



Some fun facts about the USMC:
*In Washington DC, the Commandant of the Marine Corps's license plate reads "1775", the year the USMC was created
*Since the 1920's, and English bulldog has been the official mascot of the Marine Barracks in Washington, DC
*All Marine posts (and some camps) have a bell, usually from a decommisioned US Navy warship
*If a Marine officer enters a mess without removing his hat, he or she is liable to buy a round of drinks for everyone present. The exception is if the officer is on duty and under arms
*The USMC celebrates it's birthday every November 10, and is the top social event of the year. The cake, if present, is cut with a mameluke sword and slices are presented by the senior Marine to the youngest and oldest Marine
*When Marines enter a boat or vehicle, the junior person goes first and takes the less desirable places in the middle or front. When debarking, the senior leaves first, while juniors follow in order of rank
*The "Marine Corps Hymn" is the oldest of the official songs of the US Armed Services
*The Mameluke sword, used by Marine officers since 1826, is the weapon with the longest service in the US Military. The second longest serving weapon is the ceremonial swords carried by Marine sergeants, a tradition that began in 1850
*The red-colored leg stripe on a Marine's Dress Blue uniform is known as the "Blood Stripe", in remembrance of the Marines who stormed Chapultec Castle in Mexico City during a bloddy battle in 1847
*Every New Year's Day since 1869, the Marine Band has serenaded the Commandant of the Marine Corps at his quarters. Afterward, the band members are invited inside for breakfast and hot-buttered rum
*If a Marine unsheathes a sword inside a mess or wardroom, he or she must buy a round of drinks for all present. This tradition helped prevent dueling in the early days of the Navy and Marine Corps
*According to Navy regulations (1865), Marines - other than the ship's captain - are always the last to leave a ship being abandoned or decommisioned
*The phrase "Tell it to the Marines" comes from King Charles II, who was shocked to learn about flying fish from a sea captain. He turned to a member of the Maritime Regiment (precursor to the Royal Marines) and asked if it was true. The Colonel confirmed it, whereupon Charles II decreed that from then on anytime a strange thing was presented "....we will tell it to the Marines, for they go everywhere and see everything, and if they say it is so, we will believe it".
*All Marines salute a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank
*A Marine will fight and die rather than permit the National Colors (American Flag) or a Marine Corps color to be dishonored or captured. If capture seems likely, the flags are burned.

[CelticWarrior]

*If a Marine officer enters a mess without removing his hat, he or she is liable to buy a round of drinks for everyone present. The exception is if the officer is on duty and under arms
*If a Marine unsheathes a sword inside a mess or wardroom, he or she must buy a round of drinks for all present. This tradition helped prevent dueling in the early days of the Navy and Marine Corps
*All Marines salute a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank
*A Marine will fight and die rather than permit the National Colors (American Flag) or a Marine Corps color to be dishonored or captured. If capture seems likely, the flags are burned.

Sounds like they've taken some things from the Royal Navy and British Army, can't understand why.

We call them traditions, I guess the USMC might call them habits.

[Javier Tapia]

To this day the Marines act as the "spearhead" for all US military conflicts. The Army acts as a "cleanup and occupation crew"

Ok.. that clears it up

Thanks! Jumpshot

[Ford Friendly]

To this day the Marines act as the "spearhead" for all US military conflicts. The Army acts as a "cleanup and occupation crew" but also assists the Marines on the frontlines at some times.

And therein lies a perfect exsample of interservice rivalry/oneupmanship.

The 82nd Airborne would seriously dispute the "spearhead" claim of the Marines as would most Army units deride any Marine claim that the Army is a clean up and occupation crew who only assists the Marines in all their grandeur.

All major landing/assaults in the WW2 Eurpoean theater were conducted by Army personnel, not Marines. And lest we forget, more Army personnel were involved in Pacific theater assaults than Marines. That's a simple fact. Who cares who trained who on getting into the landing craft and debarking onto the beach? And it was Navy personnel who drove the assault craft, not Marines.

I'd say more but this has the serious possibility to become a pissing contest rather than a true description of what the Marine mission and use is and why.

[Jumpshot724]

And therein lies a perfect exsample of interservice rivalry/oneupmanship.

The 82nd Airborne would seriously dispute the "spearhead" claim of the Marines as would most Army units deride any Marine claim that the Army is a clean up and occupation crew who only assists the Marines in all their grandeur.

All major landing/assaults in the WW2 Eurpoean theater were conducted by Army personnel, not Marines. And lest we forget, more Army personnel were involved in Pacific theater assaults than Marines. That's a simple fact. Who cares who trained who on getting into the landing craft and debarking onto the beach? And it was Navy personnel who drove the assault craft, not Marines.

I'd say more but this has the serious possibility to become a pissing contest rather than a true description of what the Marine mission and use is and why.

Took that info right out of the book "To Be a U.S. Marine". Not to mention that's what we were taught in AFROTC class. ALL major WWII operations were conducted with BOTH Marines and Army, I don't know where you got that info. The reason more Army were involved is simple, there are a lot less Marines than there are Army. And yes Navy personel drive the landing craft, beacuse the landing craft belong to the Navy not the USMC. Nowadays they can land themselves using EFVs or the older AAVs, but traditional landing craft methods still fall under the Navy's responsibility, I don't really know what that has to do with this topic though.

Interservice rivalry is believe it or not a huge morale booster to all branches. USMC vs Navy, Air Force vs Army are the more prominent ones, like the Yankees vs. Red Sox. When you're "working" though everyone stands by each other and knows that neither service can win a war on it's own. We used to have battles all the time with the Army ROTC Cadets when I was in AFROTC, but in the end we're all brothers/sisters in combat and we'd always save each other a stool at the bar.

And to be fair, special forces from all branches actually go in first before the 82nd Airborne or a Marine Expeditionary Force. Rangers, SEALs, Force Recon etc