Protests and calls to close Miramar
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Protests and calls to close Miramar
San Diego Union-Tribune
December 14, 2008
Pg. 1
Crash Renews Calls For Base To Be Vacated
Noise, safety complaints nothing new to Miramar
By Hieu Tran Phan, Steve Liewer and Rick Rogers, Staff Writers
The years of uneasy, or at best ambivalent, relations between Miramar Marine Corps Air Station and its civilian neighbors boiled over last week.
Monday's crash of an F/A-18D Hornet in University City has renewed calls for the Marines to vacate the base and move to El Centro, Lemoore or some other less populated area.
Some residents said the tragedy – in which four people were killed when the jet hit their home – is just the latest reminder of longtime noise and safety concerns arising from operations at Miramar.
“The Marines are decent people, and it seems un-American to gripe about them during wartime. But having hundreds of helicopters and jets in the middle of an urban area is a recipe for discord and disaster,” said Sally Marks, who has lived in Scripps Ranch since 1978.
Marks was one of thousands of residents who opposed the Marine Corps bringing its helicopters and jets to Miramar in the mid-1990s. Their campaign, which included a lawsuit, fizzled amid heightened patriotism after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
“I'd be dreaming to think the military would switch us for a place in the desert,” Marks said. “But we will have come out ahead if Miramar listens to us a little more because of what happened Monday.”
Marine officials are trying to convey that they are good neighbors. They have apologized for the crash at several public meetings, canvassed the University City area to field questions and offered counseling to residents.
“Nothing is more important to us than the safety of the people who live and work in the community surrounding the air station,” said Col. Christopher O'Connor, the commanding officer at Miramar.
Military-civilian acrimony is evident at other military bases, especially in urban and suburban areas.
Residents complain about noise from jets, helicopters and artillery ranges, as well as traffic congestion around some installations. Environmental groups have targeted bases for their history of industrial pollution – such as the leakage of heavy metals and sewage from San Diego Naval Base into the bay.
Despite the friction, no one can deny the military's economic impact in San Diego County, which is home to bases from Imperial Beach to Oceanside.
The Pentagon is spending about $15.5 billion in the region this year for salaries, equipment repairs, construction, procurement and other expenses, according to a study released in August by the San Diego Military Advisory Council and the University of California San Diego.
That makes San Diego the top recipient of military funding of any county in the nation.
Miramar's economic output – including wages and infrastructure projects – was estimated at $654 million in 2004, according to a study by the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce.
To Pentagon officials and local defense industry leaders, what makes the air station most important is its location.
“Miramar is a critical hub in the wheel of the entire region because of bases that are in the desert and (aircraft carriers) offshore,” said Erik Bruvold, who represented the San Diego Regional Economic Development Corp. during the last – and deepest – round of military downsizing in 2005.
The county held on to every major installation during that process, known as Base Realignment and Closure, or BRAC.
“The Marines are not going to leave Miramar,” said retired Vice Adm. Peter Hekman of University City, who has worked on all BRAC rounds since the early 1990s.
Miramar's origins date to 1917, when the Army established Camp Kearny on the site as a training ground for soldiers headed to World War I. The Navy later created a base for dirigibles there, and it built runways during World War II. The base became a hub for Navy jets in the 1950s, when it was still miles outside of San Diego's urban zone.
Over the past half-century, the city has sprawled to the edge of the base. Development emerged in University City in the 1960s and intensified after the Navy established its “Top Gun” training school at Miramar in 1969.
When the Marine Corps took over Miramar from the Navy in the mid-1990s during a round of military downsizing, Marks and other residents protested the planned transfer of jets and helicopters from Orange County to San Diego.
They particularly objected to the newly created helicopter corridor along Interstate 15. Their opposition grew in 1999 and 2000, when at least four helicopters from the base had to make emergency landings in the region.
“Nobody questions the importance of national security. What I questioned was the wisdom of taking aircraft to a crowded area of San Diego instead of going to March” Air Reserve Base next to Riverside, said Nick Kraft, who has lived in Rancho Bernardo for two decades.
There have been some close calls involving Miramar aircraft.
In 1959, a Navy pilot died when he veered his plummeting jet away from Hawthorne Elementary School in Clairemont. In 1978, an F-14 Tomcat approaching Miramar struck a pickup on Interstate 15, injuring two occupants and killing the pilot. In 1985, an F/A-18 from Miramar crashed into a Sorrento Valley industrial park without hitting any buildings.
Until the accident Monday, it is believed that no civilians had died in military plane crashes in the county for at least 50 years.
That statistic provided little comfort to the hundreds of neighbors who narrowly missed disaster last week. Their fear and anger erupted at a public meeting with city and military officials Thursday. Residents countywide also have flooded online forums with complaints about Miramar's flight patterns and what they see as poor communication with civilians.
“These types of jets have to be moved. It's not safe, these things flying over schools and children,” said Gayle Aruta, who lives three blocks from the crash site. “How many people have to die?”
John Myers of Clairemont, who worked for decades as an engineer for defense contractors, would like to see the Marines shift Miramar operations to Lemoore Naval Air Station near Fresno.
“It may be complicated and difficult for the Marines to move there, but it really should be considered,” Myers said.
The Marine Corps does have its defenders. Because Miramar existed long before nearby homes, several people are unmoved by the fears of its neighbors.
Homeowners in University City signed disclosure forms saying they were aware of overflying jets, said Walter Polk, an Air Force veteran and 37-year resident who lives five blocks from the site of Monday's crash.
“They took a risk,” Polk said. “You go to gambling and lose, don't come crying to me.”
Hekman, the retired admiral, said people get used to everyday risks, like driving on the freeway, and overreact to remote threats like a plane or helicopter crash in their neighborhood.
“This is an extraordinarily rare event that got enormous publicity,” Hekman said. “The risk of living in University City and having a plane fall on you is millions to one.”
Among people who want the Marines to stay, some are asking that Miramar officials reconsider their emergency flight patterns. The Monday decision to route the crippled Hornet – it had lost power in one engine – to Miramar instead of North Island Naval Air Station has raised eyebrows. The plane lost its other engine while approaching Miramar.
“I totally disagree with these guys. When you've got an engine out, you don't play with stuff like that,” said retired Cmdr. Rick Ramirez of University City, who served as a flight officer aboard S-3 Viking aircraft during a 22-year Navy career.
But a former Blue Angels pilot who flew F/A-18s out of Miramar during his 24 years in the Navy said it's no surprise the Hornet's pilot, Lt. Dan Neubauer, and Marine officials chose Miramar over any other destination.
Retired Lt. Cmdr. Scott Beare, who lives in Westminster, S.C., said every military flight is planned with an alternate destination in case of trouble. For junior aviators such as Neubauer, Beare said, it makes sense to head toward Miramar because they are most familiar with that field. The base also has ample support facilities for the F/A-18.
Beare said student pilots practice emergency drills until they become second nature.
“In his mind, he clicks Miramar and it's the way he goes,” Beare said.
That's likely to remain the standard policy, Marine officials said.
“We are not contemplating changing our emergency procedures at this time,” said O'Connor, the base's commander.
He urged the community to be patient as the military conducts three investigations, which could take weeks or months to complete.
“It does no good to armchair-quarterback that pilot,” O'Connor said. “No one sets out to crash an airplane into a populated area.”
December 14, 2008
Pg. 1
Crash Renews Calls For Base To Be Vacated
Noise, safety complaints nothing new to Miramar
By Hieu Tran Phan, Steve Liewer and Rick Rogers, Staff Writers
The years of uneasy, or at best ambivalent, relations between Miramar Marine Corps Air Station and its civilian neighbors boiled over last week.
Monday's crash of an F/A-18D Hornet in University City has renewed calls for the Marines to vacate the base and move to El Centro, Lemoore or some other less populated area.
Some residents said the tragedy – in which four people were killed when the jet hit their home – is just the latest reminder of longtime noise and safety concerns arising from operations at Miramar.
“The Marines are decent people, and it seems un-American to gripe about them during wartime. But having hundreds of helicopters and jets in the middle of an urban area is a recipe for discord and disaster,” said Sally Marks, who has lived in Scripps Ranch since 1978.
Marks was one of thousands of residents who opposed the Marine Corps bringing its helicopters and jets to Miramar in the mid-1990s. Their campaign, which included a lawsuit, fizzled amid heightened patriotism after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
“I'd be dreaming to think the military would switch us for a place in the desert,” Marks said. “But we will have come out ahead if Miramar listens to us a little more because of what happened Monday.”
Marine officials are trying to convey that they are good neighbors. They have apologized for the crash at several public meetings, canvassed the University City area to field questions and offered counseling to residents.
“Nothing is more important to us than the safety of the people who live and work in the community surrounding the air station,” said Col. Christopher O'Connor, the commanding officer at Miramar.
Military-civilian acrimony is evident at other military bases, especially in urban and suburban areas.
Residents complain about noise from jets, helicopters and artillery ranges, as well as traffic congestion around some installations. Environmental groups have targeted bases for their history of industrial pollution – such as the leakage of heavy metals and sewage from San Diego Naval Base into the bay.
Despite the friction, no one can deny the military's economic impact in San Diego County, which is home to bases from Imperial Beach to Oceanside.
The Pentagon is spending about $15.5 billion in the region this year for salaries, equipment repairs, construction, procurement and other expenses, according to a study released in August by the San Diego Military Advisory Council and the University of California San Diego.
That makes San Diego the top recipient of military funding of any county in the nation.
Miramar's economic output – including wages and infrastructure projects – was estimated at $654 million in 2004, according to a study by the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce.
To Pentagon officials and local defense industry leaders, what makes the air station most important is its location.
“Miramar is a critical hub in the wheel of the entire region because of bases that are in the desert and (aircraft carriers) offshore,” said Erik Bruvold, who represented the San Diego Regional Economic Development Corp. during the last – and deepest – round of military downsizing in 2005.
The county held on to every major installation during that process, known as Base Realignment and Closure, or BRAC.
“The Marines are not going to leave Miramar,” said retired Vice Adm. Peter Hekman of University City, who has worked on all BRAC rounds since the early 1990s.
Miramar's origins date to 1917, when the Army established Camp Kearny on the site as a training ground for soldiers headed to World War I. The Navy later created a base for dirigibles there, and it built runways during World War II. The base became a hub for Navy jets in the 1950s, when it was still miles outside of San Diego's urban zone.
Over the past half-century, the city has sprawled to the edge of the base. Development emerged in University City in the 1960s and intensified after the Navy established its “Top Gun” training school at Miramar in 1969.
When the Marine Corps took over Miramar from the Navy in the mid-1990s during a round of military downsizing, Marks and other residents protested the planned transfer of jets and helicopters from Orange County to San Diego.
They particularly objected to the newly created helicopter corridor along Interstate 15. Their opposition grew in 1999 and 2000, when at least four helicopters from the base had to make emergency landings in the region.
“Nobody questions the importance of national security. What I questioned was the wisdom of taking aircraft to a crowded area of San Diego instead of going to March” Air Reserve Base next to Riverside, said Nick Kraft, who has lived in Rancho Bernardo for two decades.
There have been some close calls involving Miramar aircraft.
In 1959, a Navy pilot died when he veered his plummeting jet away from Hawthorne Elementary School in Clairemont. In 1978, an F-14 Tomcat approaching Miramar struck a pickup on Interstate 15, injuring two occupants and killing the pilot. In 1985, an F/A-18 from Miramar crashed into a Sorrento Valley industrial park without hitting any buildings.
Until the accident Monday, it is believed that no civilians had died in military plane crashes in the county for at least 50 years.
That statistic provided little comfort to the hundreds of neighbors who narrowly missed disaster last week. Their fear and anger erupted at a public meeting with city and military officials Thursday. Residents countywide also have flooded online forums with complaints about Miramar's flight patterns and what they see as poor communication with civilians.
“These types of jets have to be moved. It's not safe, these things flying over schools and children,” said Gayle Aruta, who lives three blocks from the crash site. “How many people have to die?”
John Myers of Clairemont, who worked for decades as an engineer for defense contractors, would like to see the Marines shift Miramar operations to Lemoore Naval Air Station near Fresno.
“It may be complicated and difficult for the Marines to move there, but it really should be considered,” Myers said.
The Marine Corps does have its defenders. Because Miramar existed long before nearby homes, several people are unmoved by the fears of its neighbors.
Homeowners in University City signed disclosure forms saying they were aware of overflying jets, said Walter Polk, an Air Force veteran and 37-year resident who lives five blocks from the site of Monday's crash.
“They took a risk,” Polk said. “You go to gambling and lose, don't come crying to me.”
Hekman, the retired admiral, said people get used to everyday risks, like driving on the freeway, and overreact to remote threats like a plane or helicopter crash in their neighborhood.
“This is an extraordinarily rare event that got enormous publicity,” Hekman said. “The risk of living in University City and having a plane fall on you is millions to one.”
Among people who want the Marines to stay, some are asking that Miramar officials reconsider their emergency flight patterns. The Monday decision to route the crippled Hornet – it had lost power in one engine – to Miramar instead of North Island Naval Air Station has raised eyebrows. The plane lost its other engine while approaching Miramar.
“I totally disagree with these guys. When you've got an engine out, you don't play with stuff like that,” said retired Cmdr. Rick Ramirez of University City, who served as a flight officer aboard S-3 Viking aircraft during a 22-year Navy career.
But a former Blue Angels pilot who flew F/A-18s out of Miramar during his 24 years in the Navy said it's no surprise the Hornet's pilot, Lt. Dan Neubauer, and Marine officials chose Miramar over any other destination.
Retired Lt. Cmdr. Scott Beare, who lives in Westminster, S.C., said every military flight is planned with an alternate destination in case of trouble. For junior aviators such as Neubauer, Beare said, it makes sense to head toward Miramar because they are most familiar with that field. The base also has ample support facilities for the F/A-18.
Beare said student pilots practice emergency drills until they become second nature.
“In his mind, he clicks Miramar and it's the way he goes,” Beare said.
That's likely to remain the standard policy, Marine officials said.
“We are not contemplating changing our emergency procedures at this time,” said O'Connor, the base's commander.
He urged the community to be patient as the military conducts three investigations, which could take weeks or months to complete.
“It does no good to armchair-quarterback that pilot,” O'Connor said. “No one sets out to crash an airplane into a populated area.”
GZR_SACTARGETS
- CelticWarrior
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I've seen calls for the closure of a military airfield by local civilians many, many times. It's part of the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) culture. People move out of the cities into rural areas near bases, more and more houses are built and the airfield is surrounded by built-up areas. The airfield that was built in the 30s several miles from any significant population ends up having to shift for residents who have moved there much more recently.
So the military move, and a few years later everyone is complaining about the loss of income and lack of jobs and how the neighbourhood is being ruined because house prices are dropping turning the area into a slum.
If they don't like living near an airfield, don't live near an airfield!
However, more often than not, the government caves in to public pressure, or in the case of RAF Wittering, pays out millions in compensation to people have have only lived there for a fraction of the time the airfield has been there.
So the military move, and a few years later everyone is complaining about the loss of income and lack of jobs and how the neighbourhood is being ruined because house prices are dropping turning the area into a slum.
If they don't like living near an airfield, don't live near an airfield!
However, more often than not, the government caves in to public pressure, or in the case of RAF Wittering, pays out millions in compensation to people have have only lived there for a fraction of the time the airfield has been there.
"We attack tomorrow under cover of daylight! It's the last thing they'll be expecting ... a daylight charge across the minefield .."
Yup people should really learn the lesson that the residents of Upper Heyford did. They got their way and the noisy aircraft went away, as did the economy and the jobs.
I live within half a mile of Heathrow, because its very convenient for work. People in my village are up in arms over the third runway. If you don't like it move away. Most of them are airport workers, or worse, retired airport workers. Frickin hypocrites!
I live within half a mile of Heathrow, because its very convenient for work. People in my village are up in arms over the third runway. If you don't like it move away. Most of them are airport workers, or worse, retired airport workers. Frickin hypocrites!
Steve
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- GZR_Sactargets
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You can add Portland to the list! We used to say "It's the sound of freedom."
From AF Daily report 15 Dec 08
New F-15 Flight Pattern Strikes a Nerve: The Oregon Air National Guard's test of a new flight pattern that takes the F-15s of the 142nd Fighter Wing at Portland International Airport over residential areas northeast of Portland as a means to cut fuel cost and save flying hours has raised the ire of some residents, reports The Oregonian. The F-15s had been flying to other bases for training. "It's much more efficient for us to practice this overhead pattern in Portland," the 142nd FW's Jeff Silver told the newspaper. The Oregonian notes that one of the residents complaining, Ervin Bergman, who was an environmental noise data specialist, joined with other citizens of the Cully Association of Neighbors to start a petition for a formal complaint. However, the newspaper also reports that Jason Schwartz, the noise-management manager for the Port of Portland with jurisdiction over the airport, likened the F-15 noise as "equivalent to the sound of a car driving by." His office measured the noise levels in the surrounding and found the noise "was minimal." The ANG's trial period ends in March 2009, at which point Schwartz said the noise advisory committee would review the data and public reaction.
From AF Daily report 15 Dec 08
New F-15 Flight Pattern Strikes a Nerve: The Oregon Air National Guard's test of a new flight pattern that takes the F-15s of the 142nd Fighter Wing at Portland International Airport over residential areas northeast of Portland as a means to cut fuel cost and save flying hours has raised the ire of some residents, reports The Oregonian. The F-15s had been flying to other bases for training. "It's much more efficient for us to practice this overhead pattern in Portland," the 142nd FW's Jeff Silver told the newspaper. The Oregonian notes that one of the residents complaining, Ervin Bergman, who was an environmental noise data specialist, joined with other citizens of the Cully Association of Neighbors to start a petition for a formal complaint. However, the newspaper also reports that Jason Schwartz, the noise-management manager for the Port of Portland with jurisdiction over the airport, likened the F-15 noise as "equivalent to the sound of a car driving by." His office measured the noise levels in the surrounding and found the noise "was minimal." The ANG's trial period ends in March 2009, at which point Schwartz said the noise advisory committee would review the data and public reaction.
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- CelticWarrior
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Had a similar thing over here; a farmer tried claiming compensation because his chickens stopped laying for 2 hours each time a plane flew over. Unfortunately for him when they set up noise monitoring equipment they found that the chickens also stopped every time a train went past, and the train line had been there for 100 years.GZR_Sactargets wrote: "equivalent to the sound of a car driving by."
Case closed.
"We attack tomorrow under cover of daylight! It's the last thing they'll be expecting ... a daylight charge across the minefield .."
I still call it the sound of freedom. BTW, I love that sound! 

-Mike G.
Recovering flight sim addict, constant lurker.
Check out my real life RV-8 build here: RV-8 Builder Log
Recovering flight sim addict, constant lurker.
Check out my real life RV-8 build here: RV-8 Builder Log
I used to receive flying and noise complaints when I was based at Coningsby, back in the FGR2 days. One regular, who owned a stud farm, used to ring up to complain that it put her horses off!?
I don't know about anybody else but a Phantom never put me off sex! I always remember it as a positive aid
.
I don't know about anybody else but a Phantom never put me off sex! I always remember it as a positive aid

Steve
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Quid Si Coelum Ruat
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Quid Si Coelum Ruat
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- GZR_Sactargets
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From AF Daily Report 16 Dec 08
Already a Problem at Nellis: According to a report in the Las Vegas Sun, Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada has already altered flight patterns to accommodate area development and, despite newly enacted state law, is confronting renewed encroachment threats. The Sun notes that the Las Vegas area has been one of the top five fastest growing metro areas in the US since 2000, with no end in sight. Director of planning and zoning for North Las Vegas, Frank Fiori, tells the newspaper that he's "not sure" the Air Force desire to have very low density growth near Nellis is "reasonable because we would have to stop development where we're at and not proceed further." According to the Sun, the Air Force's efforts to accommodate growth in the area have reduced the available flight patterns to those on the north side and that is the area North Las Vegas developers are eyeballing now for some 50 high-density projects. Col. Howard Belote, commander of Nellis' 99th Air Base Wing, said that without that area for combat aircraft training, "The reason for Nellis to exist is almost gone." According to the Sun, Clark County Commissioner Tom Collins acknowledged that a single project in that area wouldn't forecast base closure, but so many projects probably would signal ultimate doom.
Already a Problem at Nellis: According to a report in the Las Vegas Sun, Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada has already altered flight patterns to accommodate area development and, despite newly enacted state law, is confronting renewed encroachment threats. The Sun notes that the Las Vegas area has been one of the top five fastest growing metro areas in the US since 2000, with no end in sight. Director of planning and zoning for North Las Vegas, Frank Fiori, tells the newspaper that he's "not sure" the Air Force desire to have very low density growth near Nellis is "reasonable because we would have to stop development where we're at and not proceed further." According to the Sun, the Air Force's efforts to accommodate growth in the area have reduced the available flight patterns to those on the north side and that is the area North Las Vegas developers are eyeballing now for some 50 high-density projects. Col. Howard Belote, commander of Nellis' 99th Air Base Wing, said that without that area for combat aircraft training, "The reason for Nellis to exist is almost gone." According to the Sun, Clark County Commissioner Tom Collins acknowledged that a single project in that area wouldn't forecast base closure, but so many projects probably would signal ultimate doom.
GZR_SACTARGETS
Well there's certainly not much to the north of Nellis, can't imagine anyone wanting to develop anything north of the base. Of course these are the same geniuses building mega cities in the middle of deserts. The water won't last forever.
-Mike G.
Recovering flight sim addict, constant lurker.
Check out my real life RV-8 build here: RV-8 Builder Log
Recovering flight sim addict, constant lurker.
Check out my real life RV-8 build here: RV-8 Builder Log
- GZR_Sactargets
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I hate the ignorance and lack of logic that prevail in our education system. Seems people get dumber and dumber, instead of learning how society works, logical thinking and problem solving. Too many irrational thinkers(I use the word loosely) these days. But being an old fart I may have a lot of bias. 

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It's really about time the local governments start working with the military to limit this kind of event. I find it really amazing that people will act like they are completely ignorant to the fact that their is some type of aviation place nearby, until something like this happens. They complain about the noise, they complain about the flying, they complain about the crashes. so on.....
Local Governments could limit the amount of building in and around these areas. It's not the airport of air bases fault that the homes got built so close to the airport or base. And the homeowner could man up as well, knowing that being so close to the flightplan of the base or airport could be a recipe for disaster.
My thought is this, you knew the airport or base was there BEFORE you bought the home, you assume the consequenses of anything that may happen later on
Local Governments could limit the amount of building in and around these areas. It's not the airport of air bases fault that the homes got built so close to the airport or base. And the homeowner could man up as well, knowing that being so close to the flightplan of the base or airport could be a recipe for disaster.
My thought is this, you knew the airport or base was there BEFORE you bought the home, you assume the consequenses of anything that may happen later on
- CelticWarrior
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Sadly not in today's society, where it's the norm now to abrogate responsibility. And where possible for them it's far easier to search for blame with others, than take the blame themselves.Dave Waffler wrote:My thought is this, you knew the airport or base was there BEFORE you bought the home, you assume the consequenses of anything that may happen later on
"We attack tomorrow under cover of daylight! It's the last thing they'll be expecting ... a daylight charge across the minefield .."