B-52 take-off attitude

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 16 Jan 2009, 19:12

Hey guys, I was wondering if some of you Air Force guys could answer a question for me. I seem to have seen a video of a BUFF taking off almost level or slightly nose-down. However lately I can't seem to find it. Every one I see shows a normal rotation and climb-out (although not as steep as an airliner)

Does this a/c take off differently depending on some variables?

Thanks,

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 16 Jan 2009, 22:23

Depends on the Model & Engines. Essentially the Buff is 'rigged'(static wing angle of attack) to fly itself off the runway. The D model had less powerful engines than the G or H. Check your video to see which one you are seeing. HTH If you see them in the landing pattern you will usually note a nose down attitude in level flight.

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 17 Jan 2009, 07:07

I know that they do actually takeoff tail first, with the rear end lifting off a second or two before the front. And yes they do have a nose down/level attitude on approach

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 17 Jan 2009, 20:18

Thanks GZR, that makes a lot of sense.

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 18 Jan 2009, 03:23

aerogator wrote:Thanks GZR, that makes a lot of sense.

You're welcome. I have about 2500 hours in the D model as an EWO. And a few in the E. Never flew in the G or H. a Buff pilot could probably give a more detailed answer. Take note of the wing flex also. IIRC it was about 6-8 feet either side of the level position when airborne. On the ground, Fully fueled, the outriggers (Training wheels-

) are in contact with the ground. Wing tanks empty they sit about 4-6 ft off the ground. That isn't really an issue. The airplane balances on the four main trucks.

ronniegj · Post by **ronniegj** » 29 Jan 2009, 22:46

I got to thinking about the B-52 and unique behavior of same. I recall seeing these things crabbing down the runway on take off and landing thru rollout to deal with heavy cross winds. It was one of the most amazing things about the Buff, and I was wondering if there is a way to associate the a/c heading vs runway heading tied to the local wind heading in xml? I am pretty sure that the ability to crab while taxing about the base would be beyond what is practical, but what about the bit ref cross winds?

Ron

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 29 Jan 2009, 23:44

The buff is one of the few airplanes with cross-wind crab landing gear. It is a setting from the cockpit and is primarily for landing. There is a checklist item to check the setting. For normal taxi it would not be used. So you set it back to track normally after the landing roll-out. I don't recall it being used for take-off but some of the pilots could probably elaborate on that. I will also ask a couple of buff pilots I am still in contact with.

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 30 Jan 2009, 03:57

Here are the replies from my pilot friends.
#1
You could use it on taxi and as a demo at airshows, etc, not sure why just to show it off. Could dial in 22 degrees either side, and I
do remember using 6 degrees on takeoff one time, I don't think it was prohibited, just required you be an IP to do it (like touch and gos).
The early shark tail birds needed it more than the G and H, I think they could tolerate more cross-wind with less crab dialed in due to the shorter tail.
#2
We could use it on the ground, but just did a test (R & L) on taxi out most of the time. I can't recall the exact limits, but 12 degrees sticks in my mind for some reason. I've actually landed a G model at Guam looking out the copilot's window due to the crosswinds (no alternate there!). Here's a picture of an early tall tail test on the ground. I'll try to find my Dash One & see what the actual limits wee for you. It was very effective. The only thing you had to watch was the drag chute deployment in that much crosswing - particularly on less than dry RCR...
#3
The max deflection was 20 degrees Marv...

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 30 Jan 2009, 06:39

One of the pilots says there was a computation 'wheel'

I remember the take off wheel the co pilot used to carry, that had s1, s2 unstick, to length, critical field length,
cross wind crab and lots of other things right at your finger tips, of course all of those were also in the performance charts
in the performance manual, but the wheel was easy and convenient and always at hand. It had landing data as well of course.l
I just recently donated a takeoff/landing wheel for a D and one for a G to the Mighty 8th, think I might still have a D model wheel
somewhere around.

ronniegj · Post by **ronniegj** » 30 Jan 2009, 15:28

What got me started on this in the first place was some footage that I saw yesterday on the Pentagon Channel of a B-52 taking off in a crabbed attitude, which in turn brought back memories of seeing them landing crabbed at Andersen AFB in Guam in the early 70's. Fascinating to watch. That is where I also observed them crab will taxiing. This bird won me away from fighters!

Ron

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 02 Feb 2009, 00:16

If I remember right, the "crabbing" ability of the BUFF was "classified" at one time.....Been a long time ago for me also...

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 02 Feb 2009, 14:45

I was wondering if there is a way to associate the a/c heading vs runway heading tied to the local wind heading in xml?

Ron, please!!

The model itself is hard enough.

Its OK to dream though. I'm sure Kev could snap it out in a heartbeat!

ronniegj · Post by **ronniegj** » 02 Feb 2009, 15:36

It is mostly just a dream.

In a practical sense, I don't think there is much point, as the user would have to make sure local weather was set to have sufficient wind at a sufficient cross heading to even have the effect show up. Unless you take the trouble to do so, the wind will default to at or near calm, with what little may be present coming out of the north, so you'd see nothing. Not much bang for the buck there!

Sure would be a nice surpize tho....

Ron

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 02 Feb 2009, 16:56

flyboy wrote:If I remember right, the "crabbing" ability of the BUFF was "classified" at one time.....Been a long time ago for me also...

It may have been, What you have to know is that aircraft come with an assortment of manuals. Most are familar with the Dash 1.( The basic operations manual) There were others for performance, maintenance, weapons, etc. The Electronic Warfare officer had a classified manual. I think the CW Crab was in the Dash 1. I will have to dig my D-Model dash one out of garage.