Russian/exUSSR military plans

drmweaver2 · Post by **drmweaver2** » 14 Oct 2006, 23:15

As we(I've) established with a couple premature posts here, US flight ops isn't my area of expertise. I can definitely appreciate the interest and number of US military packages out already and in the works.

My area of expertise actually is (was during my military service days) former Soviet/Warsaw Pact stuff. Looking around a bit over the last couple weeks, I'm pretty sure that I can put together some fairly realistic long-range/strategic bomber routes (TU-160, TU-22M) if anyone is interested. Additionally, I could probably work up a few for the Soviet Naval Aviation Force bombers (TU-142). The issues/questions are pretty simple --- unlimited funding training, real-world Cold War scenario (training or actual attack) or present day limited funding --- each would look different.

There are also some interesting possibilities for asw patrols, fighter squadron plans, etc.

In a way the point is, is anyone working on the relevant models - not necessarily for a full-MAIW package, but possibly for their own use?

I realize Ed Kooymans has some plans, but they are at a different level than I am thinking of ("civilian iron" moving government/military officials around). Do any of you guys use these? Are any of you interested in the former Warsaw Pact areas? People's Republic of China?

Just curious.

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 15 Oct 2006, 01:06

Post by **BadPvtDan** » 15 Oct 2006, 02:09

I think we all have a very large interest in populating the world's air forces. I miss the former Warsaw Pact armed forces!

Hopefully, in the next year we will see more and more ai models...including Sino/Soviet weapons systems.

Post by **VulcanDriver** » 15 Oct 2006, 07:47

drmweaver2 wrote: My area of expertise actually is (was during my military service days) former Soviet/Warsaw Pact stuff. Looking around a bit over the last couple weeks, I'm pretty sure that I can put together some fairly realistic long-range/strategic bomber routes (TU-160, TU-22M) if anyone is interested. Additionally, I could probably work up a few for the Soviet Naval Aviation Force bombers (TU-142). The issues/questions are pretty simple --- unlimited funding training, real-world Cold War scenario (training or actual attack) or present day limited funding --- each would look different.

In a way the point is, is anyone working on the relevant models

Do any of you guys use these? Are any of you interested in the former Warsaw Pact areas? People's Republic of China?

Just curious.

I'm a planning a Russian Bomber package using Dimitri Samborski AI TU-95 and AI TU-160 models, at the moment for my own use but I'm sure it will be released here whenits finisnhed.

I find that the Russian modellers are some of the best in world of FS. I will need to ask Dimitri if MAIW could use his AI stuff. He may even join us which would be nice.

We do need a decent TU-160 though (Dimitri's has fixed swept wings which look bad) up to the same standard as the MAIW B-1B.

BTW Is the TU-22M still operational?

Regarding the FlightPlans, if you could put something together for currrent ops that would be great.

But we do really need some AI Russian fighters!

John

drmweaver2 · Post by **drmweaver2** » 15 Oct 2006, 08:51

VulcanDriver,
I ran across those models over on flightsim.com also. I think I am of the same opinion as you, they were good for their time but could use updating for AI purposes at least in terms of multi-LODing. I am probably doing the same type of "for my own use" thing that you're doing... maybe we should talk.

As far as I can tell, yes the TU-22s are still in use despite a somewhat troubled production and operational history. Putin offered to sell some to both China and India at one time according to GlobalSecurity.org - both deals apparently fell through. Looking aroun don Google Earth, you can still find them right "where they are supposed to be", so we've got to assume that they remain operational, though they certainly don't have the cachet of the TU-160s (for either their own pilots or in NATO's eyes).

There's also an Alphasim TU-22 and a TU-16 if you're into payware. The TU-16's are still in the Egyptian, Iraqi(?), People’s Republic of China (H-6), and Ukrainian AOOB's... but that's a different story.

BTW, there's a halfway decent TU-95 over on flightsim.com - again, not multi-LOD'd but good enough for adding ambience in limited quantities and for messing around with routing/flightplanning. I wouldn't stick a bunch of them on the ground at JFK/LAX or even Sheremetyevo/Domodedovo, but you could probably get away with a half-dozen or so at a relatively undeveloped airport without taking too much of a frame rate hit.

So, technically it's possible to put together at least a semblance of the ex-USSR/current Russian bomber force if you don't mind spending a couple dollars and/or taking the frame rate hit(s).

I think, and don't hold me to this - it's being drawn from a pretty poor memory, that there are some Russian figher available on AVSIM, but how suitable they really are for AI I am not sure.... probably varies by model. I'll have a look there an on flightsim in the next couple days (got to go out of town tomorrow).

Anyway, just beginning to explore this. I'm interested in exchanging thoughts and info if anyone else is.

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 15 Oct 2006, 09:17

drmweaver2 wrote:...I think, and don't hold me to this - it's being drawn from a pretty poor memory, that there are some Russian figher available on AVSIM, but how suitable they really are for AI I am not sure.... probably varies by model. I'll have a look there an on flightsim in the next couple days (got to go out of town tomorrow).

Anyway, just beginning to explore this. I'm interested in exchanging thoughts and info if anyone else is.

Guys, there is a flyable version of literally every needed Russian plane, so these would suit for a preparation phase of such a project (Russian Mil AI Project), waiting (and encouraging) new AI models to come

drmweaver2 · Post by **drmweaver2** » 15 Oct 2006, 12:37

RipPipPip's statement definitely seems to be the case for both fighters and bombers provided you search not only avsim and flightsim but also simviation. However, while basic models are definitely out there, variants are quite lacking.

Basic paint/texture schemes for various countries exist - but vary widely in quantity by aircraft type (some have over a dozen while most are limited to 3 or less). Very few have more than two unit-specific textures and that's a fighter.

I made a quickie listing of all of the aircraft (not texture) files I found. When I get it formatted into something reasonably presentable over the next couple days (sorry real life occasionally interferes with fun), I'll stick it up here for those who might be interested.

The one thing I haven't checked at all is transport or light aircraft. I'm fairly certain the basic transport aircraft are available, but haven't a clue about the light aircraft in Russia - those equivalent to say, a Beech King Air or Learjet 25/35/45. I don't even know if such things exist. If/when I get a chance, I (or someone else) might contact those fellows doing the Russian AI traffic project... Personally, that's waaaaaay down the line on my list of things to do.

Anyway, gotta head out of town for the day. You guys have fun.

Post by **VulcanDriver** » 15 Oct 2006, 13:53

For Russian civil AI you can't go far wrong then here:

http://www.trafficsystem.ru/indexeng.html

John

Post by **VulcanDriver** » 15 Oct 2006, 14:15

Also this guy makes low-LOD Russian AI civil aircraft, but as some are also used by the military they should be OK.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sergs.skj/ ... c/main.htm

John

Cianofranc · Post by **Cianofranc** » 15 Oct 2006, 14:18

To make a Russian Mil pack is a great job but very long and hard to finish!
In fact, military air base are many (i think too many...), but we have all time we need to make a great job!
About AI planes: there are, also:
AI MIG21 by Kovacevic, with many repaints by many authors;
AI MIG29 by Eduardo Fadul, with many repaints too;
AI SUKHOI 17 (Kazunori), 22 (Moravec), 27 (Wolfgen);
Helicopters:
Mi-2 Mi-17 Mi-24
I made some researches about middle east air forces, such Syrian and Iranian. Anyone are interested in?

Cheers

Luciano

Post by **VulcanDriver** » 15 Oct 2006, 15:10

Cianofranc wrote: I made some researches about middle east air forces, such Syrian and Iranian. Anyone are interested in?

Cheers

Luciano

Hi Luciano

I think MAIW will be very interested in these two airforces for a package. Will you be working on them? For the Iranian package we need an AI F-14

John

Post by **VulcanDriver** » 15 Oct 2006, 19:26

I've just spent a good couple of hours installing SKJ Russian aircraft and the Russian civil AI Traffic and all I can is that this combination is really good addition to AI flights in a region which has been neglected in the past.

John

drmweaver2 · Post by **drmweaver2** » 15 Oct 2006, 23:03

So much for a bad day with my former "outlaws" ... home early and back to a "friendly" atmosphere.

Allow me to clarify what I wrote earlier. I was definintely not thinking of or talking about Russian General Aviation Traffic. The guys whose links ya'll posted have a griip on that. However, unlike in non-Russian countries, military aircraft and non-military/non-governmental aircraft don't generally share the same fields - there are a few exceptions, but very few. You can confirm this yourselves by examining the base coordinates in scramble.nl's AOOB using Google Earth if you like.

However, I am unfamiliar with Russian equivalents to units which fly aircraft equivalent to the UC-35, C-20, C-21, C-9, C-12, C-26 etc. I don't have what the equivalent aircraft are nor how they are incorporated into the Russian AOOB either in my head or in my notes (yet). Consequently, while I could make something completely fictional up -- it's kinda down my list of things to play around with but shouldn't be difficult once I refamiliarize myself with the current active Russian AOOB. One of the considerations that is not applicable to many other countries' military command structures except perhaps the US is(are?) the distances involved (think about the 9 time zones that Russia spans) - especially considering the lack of air refuelers. Obviously, these non-bomber/fighter routes will be multi-legged and possibly on monthly repeats in terms of complexity in order to model "accurately". ["Accurately" HA! especially when I just said that I can only make up fictional ones. HA!)

On another note, reviewing how things have changed in the Russian Air Force since the collapse of the Soviet Union, I was surprised to note just how few Tu-95s (H6 and H16) remain in the Strategic Forces - only 64. Likewise, only 14 TU-160s appear to remain active. Between them both, that's only 4 Regiments -- to which you could add one Regiment of IL-78 Midas air refulers (but with less than normal regiment strength since this regiment was originally stationed in the Ukraine and the Ukraine didn't "give up" all the IL-78s... [Probably more detail than most are probably interested in but necessary background to understand "building an OOB" for those who haven't tried it.]

This doesn't mean that these are all the bombers - I haven't accounted for the TU-22 variants at all and the above accounting of TU-95s does not include naval or recon variants either.... only strategic bombing aircraft.

If no one is interested in these types of details or ruminations, let me know. I won't post them. I posted this as a personal project "in progress" progress report intended to/hoping to prompt advice from others as well as to show how I am thinking about making my Russian AI look the way I want it to. I figure that others may share their secrets and ideas in the same manner about this or their own personal pet projects (and at this point, it's all I have to contribute that might be of value to others).

Ya'll have a good one... I'm back to the 'Net to do some more research.

Cianofranc · Post by **Cianofranc** » 16 Oct 2006, 14:20

Yes, i could work on them.
Im working on them now.
I made some afcads of Syrian Air bases. The work is 80% completed.
The typology of shelters will need a specific scenery file, for upgrade the realism.
Iranian air force is a work of more complexity ,because informations about dislocations are very poor...
I think i could go on with iranian AB afcads, and wait for repaints of F5, Phantom, and so on... (and for F-14 for AI Traffic!)
Any suggestion?
Luciano
PS I'd like to hel with russian ai military package, too!

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 16 Oct 2006, 15:17

VulcanDriver wrote:I've just spent a good couple of hours installing SKJ Russian aircraft and the Russian civil AI Traffic and all I can is that this combination is really good addition to AI flights in a region which has been neglected in the past.

John

Hi Vulcan Driver,
YOu were a lot faster than I was. Took me a couple of days to find and download all the aircraft packages and then to do some tweaking and adding. Most of the airfields were definitely sparse and some didn't have any parking at all. So I went through one-by-one and added parking or taxiways as needed. Stuck in the Moscow payware package and also the Freeware for Koltsovo and a couple of others that slip my mind. (Getting senile here). But the end product is definitely worth the effort. It can be fun chasing some civil liner to the far flung reaches of the former Soviet Union.

Post by **VulcanDriver** » 16 Oct 2006, 15:44

drmweaver2 wrote: Anyway, just beginning to explore this. I'm interested in exchanging thoughts and info if anyone else is.

Here's a useful link for the current Russian Airforce strength.

http://www.warfare.ru/?catid=241&linkid=2180

John

Cianofranc · Post by **Cianofranc** » 16 Oct 2006, 16:38

i found this web site about russian civil and military airports:

http://www.russianairfields.com/

An interesting clickable map witj immediately linked to google map!
Luciano

drmweaver2 · Post by **drmweaver2** » 17 Oct 2006, 04:16

I'm not at home right now, but I before I left town this morning I found two links which, between them, list not only Organization but complete air order of battle including transport aircraft. When I get home on Wednesday evening, I'll upload these links for anyone who might be interested. They will pretty much solve my notional vs accurate OOB problems if they match up as well as a cursory comparison of the two sites leads me to think they do.

Thanks for ya'll's links, btw. I'll compare those to the two I found just to make sure. (Gotta say that this almost "feels" like it used to...lol)

P3_Super_Bee · Post by **P3_Super_Bee** » 17 Oct 2006, 11:24

Sounds like a great idea. I myself live in the present(As is the way my FS is set up

), so Cold War era stuff wouldn't get my attention. Though current, low budget ops would

Sure miss the Cold War Days though. So much better then. (Not that I was wanting to go to war with the USSR, but more so in the way things were done, and the money we had.) Wouldn't have had to waste 45 freeking days in Thailand twiddling my thumbs(Not that I was actualy twiddling my thumbs, I had lots to do, and had lots of fun

) waiting on an engine. Once again, the Air Farce strikes out big time agian.

drmweaver2 · Post by **drmweaver2** » 17 Oct 2006, 11:54

Ah.. memories of Udorn... Bangkok and similar places of ill-repute back in the early 70s.... Great memories... Those were definitely the days, my friend.

Russian/exUSSR military plans

Russian/exUSSR military plans

Re: Russian/exUSSR military plans