AI Helicopters

Superbuggz · Post by **Superbuggz** » 02 Apr 2008, 14:17

Perhaps a not so clever question, but is it possible to have AI helicopters with more-or-less helicopter flight dynamics?
If so, how can this be achieved ??

thanks in advance !!

Keith Jones · Post by **Keith Jones** » 02 Apr 2008, 15:05

Have a look over at Hovercontrol dot com and do a search for AI helicopters. There are quite a few 'beginners' kits to get you started.

Post by **bismarck** » 02 Apr 2008, 16:31

In the Carribean Defense Forces package by MAIW there is an true AI helo
Bye

mikewmac · Post by **mikewmac** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:31

Superbuggz wrote:Perhaps a not so clever question, but is it possible to have AI helicopters with more-or-less helicopter flight dynamics?
If so, how can this be achieved ??

thanks in advance !!

The good news is that you can have AI helicopters in FS9 as mentioned above, but the bad news is that they still contain more motorized glider flight dynamics and less helicopter flight dynamics than most of us would like.

There has been and continues to be experimental work to attempt to tilt this balance more toward apparent helicopter flight dynamics, but due to the way FS9 works, AI helicopters will probably always contain more motorized glider flight dynamics than we would all like.

Mike

andras1 · Post by **andras1** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:44

"AI helicopters will probably always contain more motorized glider flight dynamics than we would all like"

unless of course one would be able to animate the model itself to take off and land vertically...

mikewmac · Post by **mikewmac** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:53

andras1 wrote:"AI helicopters will probably always contain more motorized glider flight dynamics than we would all like"

unless of course one would be able to animate the model itself to take off and land vertically...

Yes and that is why I said "apparent helicopter flight dynamics" in my post above, but the AI helicopter flight dynamics themselves would probably still contain more motorized glider flight dynamics content than we would all like.

Mike

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 04 Apr 2008, 00:11

I wish there were more AI helos, I've been looking for AI pavehawk/blackhawk models for a while

Post by **BadPvtDan** » 04 Apr 2008, 00:17

Jumpshot724 wrote:I've been looking for AI pavehawk/blackhawk models for a while

Look no longer...they don't exist

Victory103 · Post by **Victory103** » 04 Apr 2008, 02:17

The Hovercontrol H-60's are about as close as you are going to get, but I use them and they are not too bad on framerates. There is a Pavehawk version, but forget about using that one, the IFR probe alone probably has tons of poly's.

Superbuggz · Post by **Superbuggz** » 04 Apr 2008, 08:24

Once I figured out best flight characteristics (could do with some suggestions?), this should be not such a big problem..

Not that many AI helo's exists, partially because people loose interest if they can't get them to fly, but once that's sorted it will be just as easy as creating AI fixed wing models.
I understand flight dynamics for AI Helo's will not be similar to a genuine rotorcraft, but if glider is as near as we can get, then that's what we are going to use...., (untill something better comes around

)

flyerkg · Post by **flyerkg** » 04 Apr 2008, 22:35

The only problem I have had with AI helos is trying to incorporate afcad overlays associated with realistic locations of helo pads at airports.
As soon as I can get ATC to clear my helos from "spots" as opposed to the active runway I will be pleased. I know this has never been programmed into MS Flight Sim and probably never will be. Maybe some smart guys can develop some sort of addon that will allow for departures/recoveries to and from helo pads?
I have a few ideas in the works for AFCADs but they will never be realistic with the existing flight dynamics and ATC modeling.

Keith

Post by **Firebird** » 04 Apr 2008, 22:53

You can Keith, the simple explanation is that two afcads in the same location don't know about each other. So what you do is create a small afcad at exactly the spot you have or want your helipads. It will have to have a different icao from the main airfield but it can be called the same and I think can have the same freqs.
You then setup your small runway and simple taxiway system to and from the helipad(s).

Somebody might have access to an absolutely blinding tutorial somewhere, but hopefully this should start you off on the right track of thought.

flyerkg · Post by **flyerkg** » 05 Apr 2008, 06:38

Steve,

Thanks! I've actually done this a few times and you can find a version of my MCAS Miramar on Avsim.com. Two separate ICAOs exist in this file, KNKX and MNKX. But the AI helos are still given clearance guidance to "runway". It is really no big though.

Again, it's just me trying to make this thing too real. I have been considering doing NAS Whiting Field South for AI Helo Training traffic.
The biggest challenge for reality here is that multiple spots are used for take off and landing along rwy 14/32.

The actual heading of the approach or departure is still associated with the active runwy heading. Because the AI helo cannot hover, perform vertical takeoff or landing, the AI helo would have to travel over unprepared surfaces to execute each of these procedures. This might not be too bad if you aren't watching the AI helos exept when they are away from the field. Any ideas???

Cianofranc · Post by **Cianofranc** » 05 Apr 2008, 07:30

There is a useful freeware tool, called:
GENERATEHELIPAD
made by George Davison in 2005,
that allow you to generate AI Helipad.
This is how the readme file begins:

"FS 2004 does not directly support helicopters as AI traffic, however, Holger Sandmann and Doug Callihan developed a method whereby if the helicopter air file was replaced with that of the Stemme motor glider by Al Kaiser and the aircraft cfg modified, the helicopter would be recognized as an aircraft by the FS AI engine. For more information on how to create AI helicopters, download the Aiheli zip files from Hovercontrol.
AI aircraft need a parking spot, taxiway and runway to operate, but for helicopter operations it might be preferable to have them operating directly from a helipad.
This program creates an airport facilities file (afcad) for an invisible helipad together with its associated taxiway and runway (also invisible). The helipad may be situated at ground level, on a hardened building or on a non-hardened building. Note however, that each helipad requires its own ICAO code which must be different from those in your current FS 2004 installation."
I used it. Very good.
Cheers
Luciano
PS: Link inside readme file doesn't works anymore. You need to search the web.

Victory103 · Post by **Victory103** » 05 Apr 2008, 16:15

Check out the NEUMAI newer package. The H-60s H-1 OH-58's use this version of helipad as a mini-runway. Works very well as the AI helos don't taxi to the runway and tie up the P3's. They take off in a few hundred and climb out like a fixed wing, but its the only way.

mikewmac · Post by **mikewmac** » 05 Apr 2008, 16:27

Victory103 wrote:Check out the NEUMAI newer package. The H-60s H-1 OH-58's use this version of helipad as a mini-runway. Works very well as the AI helos don't taxi to the runway and tie up the P3's. They take off in a few hundred and climb out like a fixed wing, but its the only way.

Yes, I have done quite a bit of work with AI Helicopters and invisible heliport runways. What you found in the NEUMAI Maine package was the result of some of my experiments and was state of the art at the time of its release, but more progress has been made and work is in progress to make AI helicopters lift off quicker and more realistically as well as improve their overall performance and sound.

Mike

flyerkg · Post by **flyerkg** » 05 Apr 2008, 17:30

This is all great stuff. Thanks to everyone!

Superbuggz · Post by **Superbuggz** » 05 Apr 2008, 18:59

Victory103 wrote:Check out the NEUMAI newer package. The H-60s H-1 OH-58's use this version of helipad as a mini-runway. Works very well as the AI helos don't taxi to the runway and tie up the P3's. They take off in a few hundred and climb out like a fixed wing, but its the only way.

Where can we find that NEUMAI package ??

thanks in advance !

SMOC · Post by **SMOC** » 05 Apr 2008, 19:53

Mike can answer better than I but I don't believe he finished it completely and it currently working(when time permits) on the latest versions.

Although there is a Maine package by Mike with helos found here: http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=87583

mikewmac · Post by **mikewmac** » 05 Apr 2008, 20:44

Superbuggz wrote:
Victory103 wrote:Check out the NEUMAI newer package. The H-60s H-1 OH-58's use this version of helipad as a mini-runway. Works very well as the AI helos don't taxi to the runway and tie up the P3's. They take off in a few hundred and climb out like a fixed wing, but its the only way.
Where can we find that NEUMAI package ??

thanks in advance !

My NorthEastern USA Military AI Aircraft and Airbase Collection Part 1: 2006 Maine Military AI Aircraft and Airbases package (neumai1.zip) can be found on the following page at avsim.com or at the download link that Chris posted:

http://library.avsim.net/search.php?Sea ... &Go=Search

As Chris said there is an update for this package in the works, but the package at the above link is the one discussed here and has AI helicopters and their invisible runways at both Bangor IAP and NAS Brunswick.

Mike

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