Ten for Ten Part 3: USMC Ospreys

[COA732]

May be some problem with Comms? What are the SOCAL frequencis? What/where is SOCAL?

I'm watching at 1321hrs and a mixture of F-18's and ospreys were departing at that time. They all asked for clearance to taxi on ground (128.625) and began to taxi to 24R. When all aircraft got to the end of the runway, they all contacted tower (135.2) for takeoff clearance then off they went. They then contacted SOCAL departure at 132.2. At the same time, aircraft were landing on 24L. Everything seems to be working smoothly on my end. Definitely a head scratcher why it's not working for others.

[JohnTenn]

I also could not find any issues until I started the sim at 19:10 UTC. Wind to force rwy 24.

The heart of the matter is, the way the sim prioritises the flow of traffic. The outbound taxying traffic will get priority over inbound traffic.

If there are no Ospreys starting then all is good. The traffic flow is also modified by the number of nodes they have to cross.

In summary there are so many factors affecting AI traffic flow that this could be a discussion on its own.

A confession: There is a node purposely omitted on my afcad. AI will take the shortest route, so change the available shortest route.

John

[Firebird]

OK.
I believe that I have fixed the problems.

Firstly the afcad.
Although it seems that they weren't the problem I have moved the parking slots order so that most unassigned parking is at the end. This means that all assigned parking has an index number of less than 255, so FS9 compatible.
I have also renumbered some slots that also would fall foul of FS9 compatibility, i.e. W_Parking 352 to W_Parking 52.
I have cleared duplicate parking numbers by renaming some slots.
As part of my testing I also discovered that rwy 10/28 could cause AI problems by its layout and integration. As luck would have it it no longer exists in docs and visually on Google Earth so I made it a taxiway.

What was causing the problem was that the hold short line was seemingly too close to runway, at least for FS9. Yeah, go figure.
So I moved it back a bit and to be safe I moved some of the others back a touch too.

What I have not done is wholesale changes to match Google Earth for two reasons. One, the point was to fix the problem not to make it accurate. Two, When checking John Tenn's WIP it seemed that I would just be duplicating that. His work is perfectly fine and I am sure he will make it available once he has completed it.

I have attached the amended file here. Let us know if it works for you or not. If it works then I will update the package in a few days.

Now for the fde issue. In my testing I believe that I have fixed the issues that many, including myself saw.
To test this out for yourselves amend the relevant line in your [flaps.0] section with this :-

Code: Select all

lift_scalar      = 1.375  //1.5   // Mod by Firebird

The only relevant part is the 1.375. What this does is raise the final approach speed by around 4 kts to 72 kts. It now seems stable on finals and doesn't seem to have any knock on effects.

Again, let us know whether it works for you or not, so we can correct the packages. If not I can tweak further.
If it works then it goes without saying that if you have separate folders for each V-22 install then you will need to make the same mod in those folders.

N.B. John's observation about the traffic flow is perfectly valid but I shall leave that to him to implement in his afcad.

[ws.jones27]

In my humble opinion all seems fine at Miramar now apart from all the Osprey's vanishing on landing, is it possible that this problem might be sorted by you splendid people -I hope so!
BJ

[Firebird]

Did you try the mod In the post above yours?

[jimrodger]

May be some problem with Comms? What are the SOCAL frequencis? What/where is SOCAL?

Giorgio

believe this is what you're looking for..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_ ... nia_TRACON

Jim

[jimrodger]

Just tried with modded AFCAD & FDE.

Vanishing Ospreys on touchdown looks good.

However, still have the prob with the turn off from 24L. The a/c involved was asked to contact ground, but no comms was heard. The a/c sat just off of 24L then after a while just vanished.

It may just be a function of the amount of traffic that they are unable to get clearances.
I've also had F-18 traffic sitting off of 24L with initial clearance to parking but then told to hold position because of a/c on approach. The a/c on approach were at 3-4nm in real life ample time to cross, so it could all just be down to a FS9ism.
They were then further held due to t/o a/c.

West Parking slot 63 is designated as RAMP_GA, so the V-22s asking for West Parking are told to park in general aviation parking.
Is the RAMP_GA intended?

F-18 also directed to general aviation parking????

I'll keep investigating.
Hope this helps

Jim

[Firebird]

We definitely have a comms issue somewhere. After taxying out I don't here another thing until it exits the runway and asks for parking. No clearance for take off or landing, nothing. Having said that when I was having the original issue I wasn't hearing anything after taxy clearance.

I will check that the comms set are in the correct range.

The weird thing to me is that different people are having different issues. That leads me to suspect something, so I will test this theory out.

***UPDATE***
I thought that maybe the number of parking spots was causing the weird issues, so I deleted the helo ones, we would us a separate afcad anyway, and this did not make a difference the only comms I get is Miramar Ground.

[jimrodger]

With light traffic I watched/listened to 2xF18 and 1xV22 startup/taxi takeoff.
The comms were as expected with handovers from ground to tower and after t/o handed over to SOCAL

Approach wise (once again fairly light traffic) arrival with tower comms were as expected.
1xF18 on ILS 24R was OK until after handover to ground was told to hold for traffic. A/c stopped and never moved again, until vanishing.
1xV22 on visual 24L was OK until on runway, a/c was asked to take next turning 3 times whilst still on runway. A/c took first available on 24L and stopped, ground asked to take next taxiway when it was stopped no further comms until a/c vanished.

Jim
Where the V22 stopped

[Firebird]

I have seen aircraft land on 24L and clear correctly through to the middle.
What might be happening here is something I first noticed at KDFW. Due to the number of parallel runways no aircraft would move towards an active runway if there was either an aircraft on approach or one waiting to take off on EITHER runway.
Does this fit your scenario, Jim?
The time I was using was today and just hitting night then day time and going. This would set the time to 19:22:30 GMT and there will be a lot of traffic to move at that time, with some quick full stop landings.

[Firebird]

On a real world issue, as we are talking Miramar, if anybody is in the Miramar area around midday PDT then a NASA WB-57 is arriving there.

[ws.jones27]

Hi, I ammended the lift_scalar to 1.375 as you said but only 0ne Osprey actually landed on runway 24L - all the other ospreys vanished landing on 24R. Any ideas.
BJ

[jimrodger]

I have seen aircraft land on 24L and clear correctly through to the middle.
What might be happening here is something I first noticed at KDFW. Due to the number of parallel runways no aircraft would move towards an active runway if there was either an aircraft on approach or one waiting to take off on EITHER runway.
Does this fit your scenario, Jim?
The time I was using was today and just hitting night then day time and going. This would set the time to 19:22:30 GMT and there will be a lot of traffic to move at that time, with some quick full stop landings.

Yep just had an F-18 sit on 24L runway just before the turnoff with a/c on approach for 24L & 24R. Numerous calls to take next turnoff. ATC warned approach a/c of the F-18 landing even tho' it's sitting still on the runway. Eventually it just vanished.

Jim

[COA732]

With light traffic I watched/listened to 2xF18 and 1xV22 startup/taxi takeoff.
1xV22 on visual 24L was OK until on runway, a/c was asked to take next turning 3 times whilst still on runway. A/c took first available on 24L and stopped, ground asked to take next taxiway when it was stopped no further comms until a/c van

This may be because its reacting to 24R traffic. The two runways are really close to each other, so I think this is why the traffic is acting oddly. I watched a aircraft land on 24L then stop completely ON THE RUNWAY. It only continued when the F-18 at the end of 24R took off. I've seen similar behavior at SFO. There may need to be a "hold-point free runway crossing" there.

[bismarck]

Steve, with your AFD, V-22 exiting from 24R are ok. My flight start on Friday at 16:15 local (00:15 GMT)
No comms for take off or landing on 24R.
The V-22 landing on 24L, stay freezed on exit. Try to move the Hold node more distant from runway, without result. But it is the only one that contact tower on approach.
I've also deleted the start locations from ex-runway 28 and runway 9-27 that is closed. (ADE says it's not necessary). Deleted also a Start location near the V-22 apron.

Giorgio

[Firebird]

Giorgio,
So you are saying that you get comms for runway 24L but not for 24R. Can you confirm?

BJ
Try setting that lift parm to 1.4 and see if that alters anything.
For me before the change I was getting about 1 in every 15 that had the issue but I have not seen any since. That being said this doesn't mean that it has fixed it, hence why I am asking for people to check.
The thing with the 1.4 is that the aircraft will be slightly slower and so you could get more crashes as the aircraft will be more unstable on approach.
I will have a think to see if there is anything else I can do to simply help the landing without altering anything else.

[JohnTenn]

Steve

I have looked at the MAIW afcad again. The runway 10-28 extends onto runway 24L.
The runway link (black line) does not have a runway hold.
Would anything change if the runway 10-28 was moved away from runway 24 and a hold short installed?

My afcad does not have this runway. I have also not seen traffic disappear here on landing, perhaps I have been fortunate or inattentive.

I also remember that the traffic crossing an active runway was solved at another hornet base by creating an extra link across the runway without a node on the runway. I am looking into it but it is creating display changes to the layout.

Feedback will be forthcoming.

John

[ws.jones27]

Hi Steve, tried lifting parm to 1.4 but no luck I'm afraid, still only one Osprey lands on R24R without a problem but all the rest vanish particularly on R24L. It really is a shame that it seems a lot of simmers are having all sorts of different problems, just hope somebody comes up with all the answers.
BJ

[bismarck]

Steve, this is not completely true.
The V-22 starts from Yuma on Friday at 15:42. Tracking it with TVB with range of 32 miles, it is in contact with Los Angeles approach, then with SOCAL App with freq. 124.350 (???). It gives instructions for Miramar up to final when AC extract landing gear. During the descent, the freq. switch to 132.200 (as per AFCAD) and I don't have any other comms conversations.
I noticed that AFCAD has two Dep. Freq and one of them is 132.200 as the Arrival. Deleted it, but no result

Giorgio

[Firebird]

Thanks, Giorgio. Will keep plugging away.

BJ,
What I find strange is that you have completely different results to everybody else in as much as nothing survives a landing for you but everybody else seems to have most survive even with the original fde. I had most work with 1.5 and all work with 1.375.

Are you sure that you haven't accidentally changed a parm somewhere? Could you try reinstalling John's original cfg file and then only change that parm line again please. I am wondering if it got corrupted somehow.