Fort Campbell (KHOP) Scenery

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 02:51

I have just uploaded a basic AF2 file for KHOP to AVSIM which will be available on 02/04/09. This file corrects numerous taxiway, AI taxi, and ATC Runway guidance issues.

It is still the basic MS default airfield and still has major parking ramp issues which I will have corrected and updated in the near future.

I have also begun a complete scenery package for this base which when completed will feature updated buildings, "eye candy" military equipment, drive thru parking, and (hopefully) some basic helo traffic and a few suggested transient flightplans.

I hope to also extend the scenery to include many of the other military features that are located within the base as well. For one there is a dirt assault landing strip in the center of the North Artillery Impact Area that MS has left out which would be fun to play with...

This will mark the first, and hopefully not the last, contribution that I will be making to the community.

I was stationed on this base for many years in the 80's and 90's and still live just outside of it. However, I am sure there may be more than a few that have actually been involved in the actual operation of this field. Please feel free to contact me and give me any information, suggestions, or requests for things that you would like to see in the scenery package.

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 04 Feb 2009, 03:00

Just curious, are you gonna be creating models from Gmax or FSDS or using existing library objects for the scenery?

BTW, I have a host of Army related scenery items you may be interested in making use of.

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 03:11

Mike,

I would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction for objects and such. I would like to avoid re-inventing as many wheels as possible, although there are a couple of features the field has that will require me to do some custom creation for.

I think the majority of the vehicles and such I can obtain permission for via the mcdmil library and John Stinstrom's GGSE and JGSE libraries. I am going to attempt to contact these folks in the next few days.

Being that you are on the staff here, any and all help would be greatly appreciated and I would like to try and make the scenery fit into the MAIW family as much as possible.

Mat

BadPvtDan · Post by **BadPvtDan** » 04 Feb 2009, 03:15

You could just use the objects from those libraries and point out where to download them in your documentation. That would be the easiest thing to do. Especially with the McdMil libraries as most folks already have it somewhere.

I am looking forward to this. I'm an old army guy myself

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 03:23

Mike,

I had thought of that too. I just want to make sure that I don't "borrow" anything from anyone without proper permission or credit.

My most critical decision at the moment is trying to figure out if I can do this in such a way that it will be compatible with both FS2004 and FSX. I am not using FSX yet as I am waiting for Windows 7 to be released.

I have some research to do on that front, but from watching John Stinstrom's work I think I can pull it off.

I have not done any scenery since FS2002 and have never released anything to the community due to the pace of my military career and family life. Now that I am retired I have a tremendous amount of time on my hands and have been a fan of MSFS since v1. Thus, I guess now is as good a time as any to give back to the community...

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 04 Feb 2009, 14:48

I'm glad you're doing the Army airfields. I live near Benning (KLSF Lawson Field) and every time I go by, there are at least two '130's there and many times a lot more. Also often see C-17's and various chartered big birds. The E-8's from Robbins do TNG's there and there are usually some visiting helos, from Rucker I suppose, and the occasional C-12. Every now and then there is a Marine F-18 on the ramp. The only a/c that live there as far as I know are about 6 H-60's.

Just shows how much activity there can be even if not many a/c are stationed there. The airborne school is still very active and it's also the home of Ranger training. With BRAC come the M-1 guys from Fort Knox so maybe some C-5's.

If you decide to do Lawson, I can send some pics. If nothing else, it could be good place to send traffic.

Thanks,

BadPvtDan · Post by **BadPvtDan** » 04 Feb 2009, 15:24

Airborne!

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 16:01

It is surprising just how much traffic some AAF's see. It would also be surprising to many that many AAF's contain some unusual activities as well.

If my KHOP project works out I would like to do many more. Lawson would be a great project. I have already started a project folder for the AAF at Fort Wainwright, AK as well. I was stationed up there in the early 80's working at the Cold Regions Test Center. The AAF at Fort Wainwright was a joint concern with the State of Alaska Bureau of Land Management which maintained a motley group of Fire Fighting Tankers at the far end of the field. Several of these were the old C-119 Boxcars that had the ram-jet assist engines for T/O and boy did they make a ruckus on spin-up.

In doing some updated research for KHOP I found an FAA stat that quotes KHOP as handling some 4,300 transient flights annually and comprising some 30 separate A/C types. I am sure that Lawson AAF will prove to have a high number also due to the Airborne School (which I remember fondly) and the close proximity to numerous AF/USMC/USN bases.

Pictures for that project would be most welcome. I am going to have to be a little careful with KHOP due to the SOCOM activities there are absolutely no close up visits allowed at the airfield anymore except for the bi-annual open house flight show, but the War has their deployments at a fast tempo and there is no telling when the next one will be.... I am going to aim for a mix of a little retro with a lot of present and hope that future construction does not outdate the scenery to quickly...

One last note of interest...We had an Airbus Beluga doing TNGs here at KHOP one afternoon last summer, so there is no telling what I am likely to see around here day to day. Unfortunately, during my service time I spent many hours on C-141s, but they are no more....

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 04 Feb 2009, 16:34

I'm curious about the name and relationship of the airfiled at N36* 34' 12.38"N 87* 28' 57.35"W to KHOP.

Obviously it's part of Ft. Campbell, but it's NOT KHOP.

Is this strictly a helo ops field? There doesn't seem to be a wealth of buildings there.

Hopefully this isn't considered thread creep. I mention it solely because of its location.

Edited: Is this Sabre AHP?

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 16:45

Yes, that would be Sabre AHP.

Years ago in the 80's the 101st had, and still does, an Air Cavalry Squadron that operated out of there.

Now it is used by a number of the aviation units as an overflow maintenance facility and staging area.

I will be including an AFCAD for it with the KHOP scenery package if not sooner...

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 04 Feb 2009, 16:57

Cool. So it really doesn't get traffic other than helo's then, right?

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 17:13

Correct...as far as I know. I have never seen a F/W in that area at all. Let me check with some friends who use to work out there and see if they have ever heard of anything...

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 17:21

Ford,

Also note that KCKV _ Outlaw Field _ Clarksville,TN is directly outside Gate 1 to Fort Campbell. This is a decent GA field with a roughly N/S runway. Smith Graphics recently released an AFCAD for it. Aircraft fly East of the base and Highway 41A on approach and departure from this field.

It is worth noting also that Campbell Approach controls much of the airspace in the area and all aircraft operating roughly within 50 miles are required to check in with them if below certain altitudes...

KCKV is a particularly tricky approach in bad weather due to its very close proximity to KHOP and the fact that the approach is perpendicular to the Runway 23 approach at KHOP...

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 04 Feb 2009, 17:40

Thanks for the info.

Since I fly in FSX, most FS9 afcads need a little "environment modification" of the terrain mesh and/or near-aifrield landclass adjustments. I was comparing the FSX terrain/landclassing to the real world by looking at the area in Google Earth. As I zoomed out to get the bigger picture, Sabre "showed up" and I didn't know what it was.

ricktk · Post by **ricktk** » 04 Feb 2009, 18:38

Hmm - back in the 1970's there was still commercial airline service there at KCKV. We were attending a conference down at Bergstrom AFB for an upcoming exercise at Ft. Bliss, and flew commercial from Outlaw Field (believe it was Mohawk?) down to Austin, TX.

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 04 Feb 2009, 19:29

Very true...in 1981 I flew into KCKV on a Delta commuter flight. I don't remember who the actual carrier was at the time, but it was in concert with Delta. I believe commercial service was lost in 1985 or 1986. Now you have to drive down to Nashville, TN or Evansville,IN for commercial service.

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 05 Feb 2009, 14:33

KHOP Scenery Working List

The following are some of the main features that I have come up with to enhance the Campbell AAF scenery package that I am working on:

Accurate AI Taxi, AI Parking, and ATC Runway Guidance.

Updating of all building objects "on field" to reflect real life appearance.

Accurate positioning of Radar Tower at front entrance to field.

Static C-47 display adjacent to Radar Tower at front entrance to field.

Military objects scattered around field in a normal operations setting.

One or Two realistic military vehicle "chalks" staged near parking areas awaiting pickup by C-5/C-17.

GMAX model of the Air Assault School Rappel Tower and associated buildings/grounds (school is located about 2 miles E/SE of airfield.

Accurate placement of red/white military water towers on the base.

Terrain enhancement of the major LZ's / DZ's on Fort Campbell.

AF2 and buildings for Sabre Army Heliport.

Creation of the ranges used for attack helicopter gunnery training with appropriate targets.

Ok, that is the working list I have so far. If anyone has any other features that you feel I have overlooked, PLEASE, let me know so I can add them to the list. The scenery will be designed so that enhancements can be viewed based on Scarce,Dense, and Very Dense settings so don't hesistate to submit ideas...

Thanks...

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 10 Feb 2009, 17:37

Week 1 UPDATE

KHOP scenery status is 5% complete.

AFCAD update in beta that now features parking for CRAF and AMC aircraft south of runway 05/23. AFCAD to be released NLT 03/01/09 in 2 versions. One will be a retro AFCAD that still employs the six key-hole parking spots as depicted in the MS Default airport and that were still in use thru the mid-90's. The second will depict the current AMC ramp that has been built to replace the key-hole slots. These will be interim AFCADs for use until the final scenery package is released. Parking spots are accurate based on a recent tour and conversations with previous and current personnel working at the field.

By request I have added the base museum and the adjacent outdoor monument/aircraft static display to the scenery wish list. With some of the prominent VFR scenery requests in mind I have decided to build them as seperate BGL's, in addition to setting scenery display levels. For those with older/slower computer systems this will allow various options for adding this package to their computers.

Within the MAIW KLRF and PAI C-17 packages I have identified a few aircraft that do not have assigned flight plans. I will build a traffic file using these aircraft so that traffic for this scenery will be available, but without causing problems with any other installed packages unless you have already modified them.

Bonus project for this scenery will also be a special object BGL and traffic plans depicting the bi-annual "Week of the Eagles" airshow. This event is known as "Super Saturday" and features some unique displays that are rarely found at other venues due to the nature of the operations that the 101st has been involved in during it's history...

This is going to be a large-scale project with a lot of unique detail so stay tuned for more to come...

Thanks one and all,

Mat

msm8378 · Post by **msm8378** » 19 Feb 2009, 02:23

Week 2 Update

KHOP scenery status is approx. 15% complete.

Beta testing on AFCADs continues and still on track for 03/01/09 release.

Scenery package will now also be offered with two options. 1) will be retro which leaves "Son DZ" intact which sets just south of Runway 05. During the 80's and early 90's this drop zone was used a great deal by the base parachute club on the weekends and for special events. 2) will be the current utilization of "Son DZ" which has been covered up with new barracks and admin facilities for the additional aviation units that have been assigned to the base post 9/11.

Following additional contact with others who are interested in this package I have also decided to create AFCADs for the major fields in the area that the helo's of the base utilize on a daily basis. Whether users choose to use FPs for them or not, they should still prove useful by way of accurate operations and additional GA/COM parking.

One issue I have run into that I would appreciate help with is as follows:

The satellite imagery I have found shows some rectangular areas marked on the edge of the new cargo ramp that has replaced the key-holes. What programs/methods are available for placing colored lines on ramp polys? I know that FSSC can do it, but not sure if I can create a poly in that program and then convert it to a usable bgl for FS9/FSX...

Finally, for all who have contacted me personally regarding this package...Thanks and keep the contact and ideas coming.

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 19 Feb 2009, 04:39

Mat, first of all, I would strongly advise against publishing any kind of projected release dates. Putting that pressure on yourself will drive you crazy. As we say around here, "it's ready, when it's ready".

Secondly, Gmax or FSDS can make polys that you place over top of an AFCAD ramp surface. So using that method, you can make whatever kind of markings you need to make.