U.S. Air Force told me to remove Google Earth Scenery

[spitfiregt6]

I have been working on detailed scenery for an AF base in Dayton, Ohio for a long time. I began placing my 3D buildings and hangars on Google Earth since it's much quicker than MSFS. That way I was able to see if I needed to make any changes. Last July I got a phone call from the Air Force Office of Special Investigation. They said that I had to remove my models from 3D-warehouse where they can then be correctly placed in Google Earth. They were concerned about base security and possible terrorist attacks. I reluctantly removed all of my 250+ models. However, Google Earth still shows them, for now.

Has anyone else been visited by the government about air force base models?

Name withheld for security reasons.

[Joseph29]

How do they know you (and other people) were using Google Earth to make scenery?

[ronniegj]

Impressive job! Very diverse collection and well done textures. Sure would be nice if all of that was available as a library for fs9. I wonder, did they actually order you to remove the models, or was it a strongly worded suggestion. No sure of the legal aspect of this, but the gov't has been really acting like the big "dick head" bully of late, for example the questionable stop and search of GA a/c and pilots, passengers of late, without real probable cause etc. Easier for you to comply, but maybe there is an "issue" here for someone with deep pockets to play with. Ron

[spitfiregt6]

Q. "How do they know you (and other people) were using Google Earth to make scenery?"


A. I don't know how they discovered it. My guess is that someone at the base just happened to look at Google Earth and saw all the 3D buildings. Then they must have twisted Google and 3D warehouse to get my address.

Q. "did they actually order you to remove the models, or was it a strongly worded suggestion."

A. It started with a strong suggestion. Then they read a section of regulations stating that anyone publishing images of structures on the base could be subject to a 1 year prison sentence without consent of the base commander.

"Easier for you to comply, but maybe there is an "issue" here for someone with deep pockets to play with. Ron"

Ron, I sure wish someone with deep pockets or a law degree would take my models and use them for FS9 or FSX. Unfortunately, that's not me.

[ronniegj]

Of course, we wouldn't want to do anything that would be harmful to the interest of the Nation, so to be on the safe side I can see that the best course of action is to just go along, but these models seemingly can be produced by just about anyone, within or outside of the sphere of control of the Air Force, using a combination of Google Earth, and perhaps a pair of binoculars or telephoto lens to garner the major features of the buildings in question. The contents of the buildings and activities inside same are beyond the discernment of the casual viewer, so is would seem unlikely to revel anything of real value. It should be ok IMHO to create models using what is obtainable by anyone, without extra ordinary effort, to be used for innocent purpose, however, in the current period of concern, I guess almost anything could be viewed as an attempt to communicate harmful information. We live in a time of unreasonable hyper-fear. What a dirty, rotten shame! Ron

[RKE]

Probably an IP-adress from Google followed by a phone call to the relevant ISP.

I'm using Google Earth imagery to do some speculative 3D models - I sure hope I don't get the Chinese on my tail because of that

[ronniegj]

What really concerns me is that now they are aware, will they come after all of the other detailed scenery's we have built up over time? Ron

[clickclickdoh]

What really concerns me is that now they are aware, will they come after all of the other detailed scenery's we have built up over time? Ron

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that spitfiregt6 is somehow associated with the armed forces or an associated contract service that does work on base, and that's how he can fall under regulations pertaining to the publication of information gathered on base only under the consent of the base commander. If you don't fall under his chain of commander or sphere of authority, his regulations can take a flying leap. There is no law that says you can't publish anything gathered from a place that you are legally allowed to be... which is why there are always nice pictures of celebrities bums in the tabloids.

All the Military can do to MAIW and the people on this forum is quietly steam. Or you know, they could get some positive publicity and work lend a hand.

[spitfiregt6]

What's funny is that all the buildings were made using satellite images from Google Earth and mainly from Satellite and the four Aerial Views from Bing. It seems that the Air Force should go after Bing for showing such detail in their Aerial View images.

BTW, I'm not affiliated with the Air Force or any government agency. I'm a 60 year old, self employed person in the medical field. The closest I ever got to the Air Force was as a staff flight instructor at Ohio University. I had two Air Force ROTC guys as students learning to fly.

I originally thought the investigators visited me because I had many patients who worked at the base, and I thought they were checking up on one of them. They asked if anyone had giving me photos of the base because they felt my renderings were too accurately detailed to get from satellite photos. That made me feel pretty good, but I still miss not being able to share them with the fight sim community.

SpitfireGt6

[clickclickdoh]

... but I still miss not being able to share them with the fight sim community.

I'd ask for a copy of the law that they claim applies to you, because I think you got a healthy dose of particulate ash pneumatically directed at your posterior.

[spitfiregt6]

I thought about pushing back by asking for a copy the regulation they cited, but my wife and I decided that the government had unlimited funds and I'm not too far from retirement. I know that I could have called the local T.V. stations or newspapers to complain of their threats, but then I might be portrayed as the bad guy. It's just not worth the risk.

They did call back and said I could keep the Museum of the United States Air Force. I wonder if Google Earth isn't going to remove the 3D buildings I uploaded even though I removed them from 3D Warehouse.

SpitfireGt6

[supernova48]

Hey SpitfireGt6,
Sorry to hear about it. I was wondering what happened to your 3D Models. I had downloaded a few of the DAE files in a possible attempt to learn how to do my own FSX scenery. Your models were great!! I see they are they are still visible on Google Earth, but not downloadable anymore. Anyway your work was fantastic.

Supernova48

[spitfiregt6]

Thanks Supernova48. I didn't realize that you could download the model from Google Earth. How can you do that to get a dae file? If everyone knew how, members of MAIW could get the files for scenery themselves.

[LEBTowerGuy]

To be honest, as long as all of your references are from public sources, ie Google and Bing imagery, then the AF and Government don't have a leg to stand on. If you took the pictures on the base, then they do.

[supernova48]

Most models for Google Earth done with Sketch up can be downloaded. Have 3D models enabled in Google Earth, left click when the model is highlighted (blue color), click on model picture in the dialog box and you should have a drop down that says "Download Model". Usually the choices you get are 1. Sketchup7 .skp, 2. Google Earth . kmz 3. Collada .zip. Download the collada.zip file, follow Arno's instructions with ModelbuilderX and then you have a FSX model which you can add to scenery with Instant Scenery (that is what I use).

What impressed me about your files is that all the building sides had very accurate textures. A lot of Sketchup models have a side that is in shadow or has tree textures from the trees next to the building.

Anyway I was so impressed that had downloaded all your files (think I got all of them), was going to contact you about using them in a my own personal scenery. I discovered that I missed two hangers, went back to Google earth to download them and then noticed they were not accessable anymore.

I also heard that Google Earth was going to stop using Sketchup models and use their own 3D designs. I do not know if Google's can be converted to FSX.

Supernova48

[spitfiregt6]

For some reason, when I highlight the model and left click, there is no model picture in the dialog box. There is either a photo that someone has taken of the object or just a map view of the area. I have 3D Buildings with Photorealistic enabled. Am I missing something?

Could it be that you downloaded them before I deleted the SketchUp models from 3D Warehouse?

[supernova48]

Yes, your models cannot be downloaded anymore. But to see how it works you could try to download someone else's models.

Supernova48

[spitfiregt6]

Supernova48,

Thanks for all the information. BTW, if you describe which buildings you were unable to download, maybe I could get them for you.

SpitfireGt6

[supernova48]

SpitfireGt6,
Yes the two large hangers on the Reserve ramp. Thought I got them initially, but somehow I missed them.

Supernova48

[spitfiregt6]

Supernova48

Go to 3D Warehouse and search Generic Hangar. Download Generic Hangar and Generic Hangar 2. In SketchUp, add the location for both. Then you can go back and download them as a Collada file. Let me know when you've got them so I can delete them again.

SpitfireGt6