RAF Gütersloh P3D restarted

[TimC340]

'Base Ops' (just Operations in RAF-speak) was in the bottom of the Control Tower building, although there was also a hardened facility for exercise/war use. I can't remember exactly where that was off the top of my head.

[Manschy]

Damn - hard work to get back my skills with the seasonal polygons!
Now doing hundreds of experiments with arrangements of the different layers. Got always flickering and bleeding through, no matter, which option I chose to prevent this.
Fortunately yesterday, right before I want to decide making only a summer season release, I found the solution to arrange my layers!

Anyway, outside it is getting colder, so it is the right atmosphere to go on with the correct season appearance...





...and one additional shot of the western maintenance area... Just to show the ongoing development...

[TimC340]

Those pictures bring back memories!

[delta_lima]

Hello all - and a huge thumbs to Manny et al for the update on this project. Happily looking forward to it, as both the RW and Razbam Harriers are two of my favourite mounts in P3DV4.

[gsnde]

Hi Manfred.

My feedback is for P3Dv6. First of all - it looks gorgeous and I see only a few irregularities. Thank you for this stunning work.

- Process of installation - Does it work fine?
Very easy to do, good description, very hard to fail this process.

- Do you have SODE and did you get everything on its place?
Yes, Version 1.8.0 installed. I believe all is where it should be, e.g. the barriers. Only in winter I see a red X. Maybe a missing snow plow?

- Is your traffic working as desired?
Oh yes, very sexy I see Harriers, Lightnings, Chinooks, Lynx, Andovers, Nimrods....
I am sure this place should be visited by John's V-Bombers, Hunters, Canberras, Meteors and Phantoms.

What is not working?
I think the issue here is the seasonal texturing that fails. In winter the base is green with white all around.
In the summer months the base looks like overgrown with moss.

The question is: did I mess something up or is it really an issue?

[gsnde]

Likely I failed to install it right, Manfred

Also in P3Dv5 the winter stops at the border of the base. Let me check my installation.

[gsnde]

Manfred, I checked the installation which is fine.

I do not see seasonal texture in neither P3D version:

Might that be due to the new Sode version? Do you use 1.8.0 as well?

[Manschy]

Hi Martin,

please let me quote myself:

Hi everybody,

I dediced to make a pre-release for all MAIW friends, just for you all to prevend a never ending story again.
So you get the version v.0.9 because it is still a work in progress and will be updated by 9.1, 9.2 etc until hopefully the work is done finally with version v1.0 when release.

There are currently no seasonal ground polys. If you use SODE, you will already get animated hangar doors and arrestor cables, trees will already have fall textures at fall and walls will be snow covered at hard winter.

Users who own ORBX 3D libraries will find grass all over the air base, as long as there is no custom made.

Because I use P3Dv4.5, I can't warrant the correct working in P3Dv6, but it should work fine also in P3Dv5 at least. Each feedback regarding this is more than welcome.

Traffic should already work fine, please have a look inside the READ_ME_FIRST_TRAFFIC_FILES.txt file to download the appropriate packages.

According to the state of development, there will be no manual for the moment, but I did arrange the package parts hopefully self-explaining. If any issues, please report and discuss in this topic here.

So here comes the download link:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApxPvGIZoKCrgk3OKCD ... K?e=RGWcDo

Enjoy, but please stick around for news and for giving me a helping hand if needed

Currently, I am in a desperate state because no matter what I try, I can't get my ground polygons show up correctly! There is a small area around the airports reference point which shows always bleeding polygons while flying over it or move the aircraft in slew mode. Had this issue also at RAF Brüggen, but got it solved.....but currently...I don't know how...It's a true mess....

[gsnde]

Sorry Manfred.

Those who can read have a clear advantage

I stop debugging then. Some errors I found in the SODE log which might come handy nevertheless:

Code: Select all

[18:12:17.394] INFO SODE.XML : xml File Found: 'ETUO_SEASONS.xml'.
[18:12:17.394] DEBUG  : Trying to build SimObject List out of XML definition files...
[18:12:17.394] DEBUG SODE.XML : Building List from File 'C:\ProgramData\12bPilot\SODE\xml\ETUO_ANIMATIONS.xml'
[18:12:17.394] DEBUG SODE.XML : Building List from File 'C:\ProgramData\12bPilot\SODE\xml\ETUO_SEASONS.xml'
[18:12:17.395] WARN SODE.XML : Environmental Data Probe 'ETUO_SEASONS': Listed Client SimObject 'ETUO_SL_Arrester_09' does not exist in the XML!
[18:12:17.395] WARN SODE.XML : Environmental Data Probe 'ETUO_SEASONS': Listed Client SimObject 'ETUO_SL_Arrester_27' does not exist in the XML!

Code: Select all

[18:12:38.979] WARN SODE.FOLDERMANAGER : SimObject with SimTitle 'ETUO_SHRUBS_FA': 'UNDEFINED.MDL' does NOT exist! 
[18:12:38.979] WARN SODE.FOLDERMANAGER : SimObject with SimTitle 'ETUO_SHRUBS_WI': 'UNDEFINED.MDL' does NOT exist! 
[18:12:38.979] WARN SODE.FOLDERMANAGER : SimObject with SimTitle 'ETUO_SHRUBS_HW': 'UNDEFINED.MDL' does NOT exist! 

Code: Select all

[18:15:35.969] INFO SODE.FSLOOP : [SEASONALOBJECTHANDLER] Variables initialized!
[18:15:36.064] INFO SODE.FSLOOP :  + SimObject 'ETUO_SEASONS:ETUO_TREES' [ETUO_TREES_WI]. ID: 212
[18:15:36.065] INFO SODE.FSLOOP :  + SimObject 'ETUO_SEASONS:ETUO_BLASTWALLS_BUNKERS' [ETUO_BLASTWALLS_BUNKERS_WI]. ID: 213
[18:15:36.065] INFO SODE.FSLOOP :  + SimObject 'ETUO_SEASONS:ETUO_WA_SOUTH' [ETUO_WA_SOUTH_WI]. ID: 214
[18:15:36.065] INFO SODE.FSLOOP :  + SimObject 'ETUO_SEASONS:ETUO_SHRUBS' [12bPilot_SODE_MissingObj]. ID: 215
[18:15:36.950] INFO SODE.FSLOOP : [SEASONALOBJECTHANDLER] Refreshing Season/Time Data...

[Manschy]

The SODE seasons will not work correctly until I have finished all appropriate objects, so there only appear some finished models like snow walls or something. You also will find a red cross in the middle of the air base which confirms the missing parts...
Version 0.9 is a WIP which shows the current state of development.
If I don't lose my mind while getting the ground polygons sorted out, I will update the current versions step by step....

[gsnde]

This was neither meant as criticism nor should it add pressure to your burden, Manfred. I saw you asked for feedback, but missed your comments where you said what is not yet working. So I just started to report what I was seeing.


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[Manschy]

Everything is fine, Martin

Each help is much appreciate and I thank you very much. I better should have announce the project as a BETA. And yes, each critism here is more than welcome...

Right now I can inform you all that the polygon issue seems to be solved (accidentally, as in many cases )

So next update may be come this weekend...

[Manschy]

Tim (TimC340),

do you remember the 60s/70s at RAF Gütersloh, especially the buildings there?
I ask because of the blastwalls - were these already there during the Lightning era? I know about the big H1 Hangar which was built for the Chinooks somewhere in the 70s and the HAS for the Harriers nearly the same time.

Inspired by John's Wessex I think about two different areas, the 60/70s with his Lightnings and Wessex and the 80s/90s with Harriers and Chinooks.

Currently, it seems to be quite easy because for the Lightning/Wessex era I would simply remove HAS and H1 and possible the blastwalls, if existing those days... Then I would create a second AFCAD with some different objects.

Oh, and the tower - how did the tower look in the 60s/70s? I know about a red brick building but don't know when it changed into the military green...

[raclim]

Hi Manfred,

Maybe the image below can give some clarification regarding the blastwalls in the Lightning era. I found this on the internet a while ago, I believe somewhere on a Facebook page.



I am not sure on what date the picture was taken, but the fact that there are Wessex's on the platform, and that you in the lower left corner can see the platform and taxiway that was in front of the QRA-shed, is enough proof that this picture was taken between 1970 and 1975, as there are no HAS yet, I believe they were build in 1975.

You can see that there are blastwalls around the two visible parking stands.

As said, I am not completely sure, so lets hope maybe Tim knows beter.

Regards,
Randy

[TimC340]

Hi Manschy

I was there from mid 1975 to the end of 1976. The blast walls were a 1950s installation, IIRC, and pre-dated the HASs which I think were built while we were there. The bottom left of Randy's photo is where the kart track was, which was the focus of most of my free time! Home was 38 Parsevalstrasse, which was just off to the bottom right of the photo.

If Erich Westersoetebier is still alive, he owned the farm at the 09 end of the runway and took photos of pretty much every arrival and departure from Gutersloh from way back, and was given loads of opportunities to photograph all round the airfield. He even got a couple of Lightning rides, I believe. He will undoubtedly have photos of anything you need.

[Manschy]

Aaah, Erich.

One of my favorite ETUO's plane spotter. He was part of "Spotting Group Gütersloh" (SG-ETUO) those days, but unfortunately they stopped the site years ago. There were tons of fantastic spotter pics, both Lightnings and Harriers but also a lot of visitors.
He should be 88 years now, hopefully he is well. Since they started their little air base museum in one of the hangars, they unfortunately seem not to be keen on to bring the SG-ETUO site back in use.

Next days, I will delve into the internet and some private videos I got from the real simulator guy from the first post here...

Thank you both for informations.
Randy, to the bottom left corner of the pic, there seems to be already the QRA site and I notice all the hangars seem also still to be red brick buildings. Furthermore, parts of the main apron looks like my polygon flickering issue
No, seriously.
Several grass parts need to be added, but I feel very optimistic about the next days regarding the scenery...
Oh, and my Wessex riddle is solved: I did detect the Wessex in front of Hangar 6 and 7 to the bottom right.

Next pics will follow shortly...

[TimC340]

A few other thoughts from looking at Randy's photo.

The buildings near the flightline were all painted green during the tone-down effort that accompanied the erection of the HAS site and the general move to a more war-like RAF. Also, note the separated dispersals in front of the easternmost hangars. I'm not sure when that was filled in and made into a contiguous apron, but I believe it was before I began re-visiting Gutersloh as a C-130 pilot in 1980. If you want to properly represent the Lightning period, you may want to re-do the apron to show this.

In my (biased) opinion, the period 1975-76 was the very best for Gutersloh, with the base and the Lightnings toned down, HASs in place, Wessex buzzing about the place and all sorts of visitors all the time!

[raclim]

I managed to dig up some other images from the internet that may be usefull for you Manfred.

Both Pictures below show how the ramp looked before it was made into a contiguous apron. They are from 1969, so just before 18 Sqn and the Wessex's moved in, it looks like hangars 6 & 7 were used by the Hunters PR10 of 2 & 4 Sqn's at that time. Just like the pic from my previous post it also shows that terminal wasn't there yet.





The 3 images below are dated July 6, 1975. The apron still isn't contiguous and from what it looks like the terminal is still missing, although I am not sure as trees block the view in the first image. The HAS's however had appeared by then. I remember asking on a forum years ago if the lightning ever operated from the HAS in the 1975/1977 period and the answer from what I remember was that after tests they found out that "they didn't liked it", which sound like a no to me. Maybe Tim can clarify this since he was stationed there in that period.







Cheers,
Randy

[Manschy]

Wow - great pics, Randy, thanks a lot. BTW one of the ants is maybe me, being a 8-year old boy not getting my mouth shut and definetely start of my aircraft enthusiasm...One of the hottest days of this summer, asphalt was melting on some streets....

Okay, several points clarified:
- HAS already there in 1975 which may be my reference date in the Lightning/Wessex era
- Still not the big Chinook H1 hangar to the west side
- Terminal still missing
- Still concrete taxiway instead of later asphalt - hm, will see if I get motivation to change this as well...

Those pics awaken memories, so creating an Open Day scenery also is very enticing....
Okay, step by step...

[gsnde]

What a beautiful flight line!


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