I need an answer

VulcanDriver · Post by **VulcanDriver** » 29 Dec 2008, 18:23

I'm having a debate with friend about what the name of the Act that covers US military personnel regarding secret data.

In the UK we have the Official Secrets Act which covers everyone who are employed by the Government. I worked for the Post Office once when I was a student and I had to sign it!

So what is the equivalent in the US?

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 29 Dec 2008, 18:37

I could tell you but I'd have to kill you......

BadPvtDan · Post by **BadPvtDan** » 29 Dec 2008, 18:43

I can't remember a particular name. I had to get a SECRET security clearance for my job in LRS. Before that, though, there was nothing in particular that I remember during my enlistment that covered secrets.

I'm sure Wiki will have something!

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 29 Dec 2008, 18:56

According to wikipedia.org,

The United States also has a law similar to the Official Secrets Act (the Espionage Act of 1917), although much of it has been superseded by developments in First Amendment jurisprudence. See United States v. The Progressive, Inc., Brandenburg v. Ohio, New York Times Co. v. United States.

Also

The law was later extended by the Sedition Act of 1918, which made it illegal to speak out against the government.

During and after World War I, the Espionage Act and the Sedition Act were used in some prosecutions that would be considered constitutionally unacceptable in today's United States, even in the political climate after the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York's World Trade Center. While many of the laws were repealed in 1921, major portions of the Espionage Act remain part of United States law (18 USC 793, 794). The libel decision of New York Times Company v. Sullivan (1964), by granting enhanced protection to criticism of public figures, including government officials, largely eliminated what remained of the crime of sedition in the United States. [1]

The United States Congress has enacted other laws to protect specific types of privately held information including:

cryptographic intelligence and methods - 18 USC 798
nuclear weapons and materials (Restricted Data) - Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 USC 2162, 2163, 2168, and 7383)
industrial trade secrets - Industrial Espionage Act of 1996 (18 USC Chapter 90)
intelligence sources - in particular the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (50 USC 421–426)
data stored on computers - Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 USC 1030) and the Stored Communications Act (18 USC 2701)
patient medical records (HIPAA)
video tape rental and sale records — Video Privacy Protection Act — (18 USC 2710)

OTOH, I guess that any "real" answer would be a result of actually comparing the breadth and exact extent of what is covered by the OSA and what it takes to cover those aspects in US law, Executive Orders, etc.

VulcanDriver · Post by **VulcanDriver** » 30 Dec 2008, 07:01

Thanks Guys. Looks like the answer is various Federal Laws then.

Cheers

Col7777 · Post by **Col7777** » 30 Dec 2008, 12:38

A little story I remember from a few years ago:

Have any of you heard of a hobby called 'Radio DXing' is where you have a short wave radio equiped with side band facility and tune in to short wave radio stations around the world, if you pick up a distant station and send them a message saying what you heard and at what time, frequency etc, they send you a nice decorated card called a 'QSL' card for your collection.

So to the story, this guy applied for a job at an aircraft factory where they made military aircraft as well as civil, there were only 2 applicants, he had all the qualifications needed and speaking to the other guy he only had a few so he thought he was in with a good chance, yes you guessed he never got the job.
He enquired why and he was told he had received mail from politicaly dubious countries shall we say, he was puzzled, after a long debate it turned out it was from these radio stations sending him the 'QSL' cards many years previous from his hobby as a young lad.

So this proves if you get mail from these countries somewhere it is logged against your name, or it used to be.

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 30 Dec 2008, 12:56

Col7777 wrote:So this proves if you get mail from these countries somewhere it is logged against your name, or it used to be.

Sorry, but that doesn't prove anything. It's what is called unsubstantiated, anecdotal evidence.

As a DX'er for over 40 years, relating to both HAM and Shortwave radios, and as someone who held a clearance from the early-70's through the late-90's, I can say that those activities were never held against me.

Then again, anecdotes are not for profit, but for fun.

Edited: before it was lost in a fire, my collection fo QSL cards represented over 1000 broadcasters, including individuals, commercial stations and government broadcasters. Many were mailed from Communist/former-Communist countries. I know that I had a goal of receiving and collecting new cards from all the official Soviet broadcasters I could tune in EVERY YEAR. And while I was in the military, I used ONLY my APO/FPO address.

GrahamS · Post by **GrahamS** » 30 Dec 2008, 13:30

What that proves is that you are not connected with the UK military, either directly or through suppliers..

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 30 Dec 2008, 13:46

Graham, if your reply was not a reply to mine, ignore this.

If your response was a reply to mine... I didn't say my experience proved anything. I merely related my experience as a comparison - and still stand by my statement that anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. The phrase "anecdotal evidence" is actually an oxymoron as anecdotes are stories and evidence relates to whether something has a factual basis in truth.

But this is not really worth further replies on my part.

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 30 Dec 2008, 15:29

Easy there fellas......

KevinJarvis · Post by **KevinJarvis** » 30 Dec 2008, 15:31

I remember as a young man sitting in my dads 'radio shack', which was nothing but a big closet, tuning in sideband. This shacks walls were plastered with QSL cards from all over the world. It was great fun to go to the post office to see if there were any cards. Some of them were quite colorful and artistic.

And going to a Hamfest where guys would gather the most powerful equipment they could and try to contact as many countries as possible.

Sorry for the hijack. I was flooded with childhood memories.

GrahamS · Post by **GrahamS** » 30 Dec 2008, 15:33

Hehe, I didn't say your experience proved anything either, simply that different Countries view these things in different ways and we should not assume anything based on limited experience of other administrations.

No offence was either taken or intended, but I don't need the English lesson..

Col7777 · Post by **Col7777** » 30 Dec 2008, 16:50

Hey hang on guys, I didn't post to cause an argument, I heard this story on my local radio a few years ago, I too listened to short wave and that's why I remember it.

I could tell another similar story that I know from fact is true but may be another day, sorry for the problem I caused.

GrahamS · Post by **GrahamS** » 30 Dec 2008, 17:02

I didn't post to cause an argument either,

But it seems you can't stop them...

I don't see why anyone could take offence at what I said. Oh well!

VulcanDriver · Post by **VulcanDriver** » 30 Dec 2008, 17:09

Well I am licensed UK radio amateur and it does say in my licence that listening to and communicating with non-amateur radio stations is an offence under The Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006.

However SWL's (DX'ers) are not covered by any licence in the UK so I guess they can do what like as long as they don't pass on information they have heard. E.g HF Mil Comms.

I used to regularly tune to the USAF HF network during the 80's and 90's and enjoyed listening to the a/c calling up. I did here some very interesting reports from USAF a/c on the ground in places where the US Govt said they didn't have a presence. I could have lost my Amateur licence for this BTW.

Also, when I worked for the UK Post Office we all knew; and it was confirmed in the book Spycatcher; that a department at the UK's biggest sorting office, officially called The Royal Mail Mount Pleasant Sorting Office, was tasked with opening every letter from Soviet-bloc countries, reading them, copying them if required and then sending them on the rightful addressee. It was manned by MI5 agents apparently. So good were they at their job that the letters appeared unopened. The joke in the Post Office was that you could hear the boiling of kettles throughout the building

Anyway this is way off topic.