Fedex plane goes down, explodes at Tokyo-Narita

mr.bean · Post by **mr.bean** » 22 Mar 2009, 23:49

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndu ... 6220090322

btaylo24 · Post by **btaylo24** » 23 Mar 2009, 00:00

Video Clip, its a bouncer!

http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/23_09.html

mr.bean · Post by **mr.bean** » 23 Mar 2009, 00:32

Pilots deciared dead not too long ago. RIP

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 23 Mar 2009, 00:49

RIP to those 2 pilots....

THat's interesting video, why didn't they just go around after that first bounce?? It looked like a doozy, and then nosing down?? I feel there's more at work here than strong winds, pilot error or mechanical malfunction or something

starlifterfan · Post by **starlifterfan** » 23 Mar 2009, 00:50

May the Pilots rest in peace.

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 23 Mar 2009, 01:04

Another due to a bad landing!!! What is going on at that company??

This time it's fatal, God rest their souls.

maddog65 · Post by **maddog65** » 23 Mar 2009, 12:36

The MD-11 aircraft of the type that crashed and burned while landing at Narita Airport has a history of 3 similar incidents, in which the planes flipped over after bouncing during a landing attempt.

In 1997, a FedEx cargo plane overturned after bouncing during a landing at Newark Airport in New Jersey.

About 2 years later in Hong Kong, the right wing and engine of a China Airlines MD-11 struck the ground while landing in gusty winds. This aircraft also flipped over.

Several former pilots say a phenomenon known as "porpoising" may be responsible for the crash of the FedEx plane at Narita Airport.

"Porpoising" suggests a bouncing action by an aircraft at the time of landing. The phenomenon occurs when a plane loses altitude drastically during landing, due to strong winds or other causes, and hits the ground hard.

The former pilots say that once a plane starts to "porpoise," it is very difficult for the pilot to regain stability.

They say that pilots are trained to avoid the situation, but that in this case the impact may have been especially strong. They suggest a close examination of wind conditions and other factors at the time of the landing.

May they rest in peace

maddog65 · Post by **maddog65** » 23 Mar 2009, 12:42

Just watched the video from NHK and they said the wind at the time was 20 meters a second which works out to about 45 mph. Definitely think some wind shear was happening.

maddog65 · Post by **maddog65** » 24 Mar 2009, 12:45

Was reading various forums on this crash and came across this post from an naval aviator in Japan. http://www.japantoday.com/category/nati ... x-accident You need to scroll down to the bottom to read his post (USNinJapan2).

So here's my best guess at what happened. Despite reports of wind shear from previous flights, Narita Approach gave the FedEx flight clearance to land on Runway A (either 16R or 34L) because it was the only runway long enough and because the recorded winds were within limits for the MD-11. Remember strong winds don't automatically mean too dangerous to land. The experience FedEx pilots made the appropriate approach, crabbing sideways to counter the crosswind, but found themselves a little high off the deck, probably because of wind shear, when they reached their intended touch down point. Like many cargo pilots who don't have to worry about passenger comfort do in such a situation, they decided to stick the landing by forcing the plane down hard instead of using more runway to flare before touchdown or opting to abort and go around the pattern again to make another approach. They forced it too much and touched down harder than intended and porpoised up getting airborne again briefly before coming down hard again this time primarily on the nose gear. They lost control of the aircraft at this point. The plane looks like it got briefly airborne again and unintentionally yawed (and slightly banked) to port (left) because in approaching the runway in a crosswind from the left side their starboard (right) engine was most likely on a higher thrust setting then the port engine. The left wing dipped down making contact with and digging into the ground, breaking off, and causing the plane to further yaw left and flip over aided by momentum and the effect of the wind on the remaining wing which acted like a sail.

I don't mean any disrespect to the two FedEx pilots or their families but I think the cause of the accident was a combination of pilot error and unavoidable wind shear. Whatever the outcome of the investigation, I hope they rest in peace and I offer my condolences to their families and friends.

I think this sums it up pretty well.
Les

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 24 Mar 2009, 15:24

Was reading various forums on this crash and came across this post from an naval aviator in Japan. http://www.japantoday.com/category/nati ... x-accident You need to scroll down to the bottom to read his post (USNinJapan2).
Quote:
So here's my best guess at what happened. Despite reports of wind shear from previous flights, Narita Approach gave the FedEx flight clearance to land on Runway A (either 16R or 34L) because it was the only runway long enough and because the recorded winds were within limits for the MD-11. Remember strong winds don't automatically mean too dangerous to land. The experience FedEx pilots made the appropriate approach, crabbing sideways to counter the crosswind, but found themselves a little high off the deck, probably because of wind shear, when they reached their intended touch down point. Like many cargo pilots who don't have to worry about passenger comfort do in such a situation, they decided to stick the landing by forcing the plane down hard instead of using more runway to flare before touchdown or opting to abort and go around the pattern again to make another approach. They forced it too much and touched down harder than intended and porpoised up getting airborne again briefly before coming down hard again this time primarily on the nose gear. They lost control of the aircraft at this point. The plane looks like it got briefly airborne again and unintentionally yawed (and slightly banked) to port (left) because in approaching the runway in a crosswind from the left side their starboard (right) engine was most likely on a higher thrust setting then the port engine. The left wing dipped down making contact with and digging into the ground, breaking off, and causing the plane to further yaw left and flip over aided by momentum and the effect of the wind on the remaining wing which acted like a sail.

I don't mean any disrespect to the two FedEx pilots or their families but I think the cause of the accident was a combination of pilot error and unavoidable wind shear. Whatever the outcome of the investigation, I hope they rest in peace and I offer my condolences to their families and friends.

I think this sums it up pretty well.
Les

I heard that the MD-11 has stiffer/stronger than usual landing gear, and that once it starts to porpoise it is uncontrollable.

That being said, assuming the pilots did everything they could correctly, the a/c probably hit wind shear, hit the deck harder than they intended which caused the landing gear to transfer the force up into the wingbox more than other aircraft models would, thus pushing the tail end back up harder. At this point the pilots have no control as it starts to porpoise, and they just have to ride it out....

Both scenarios are probable, just one assumes pilot fault and the other assumes just weather. Until they listen to the black box we'll never know

Fedex plane goes down, explodes at Tokyo-Narita

Fedex plane goes down, explodes at Tokyo-Narita

Fedex Md-11 crash