Carrier Airport

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 01 Oct 2023, 16:17

To test some wet models, I anchored the Nimitz off my fictional island and created an airport on it. I haven't done this for at least 5 years and was pleasantly surprised that it worked right away.

Something irritates me, though, that I can't remember from the past.

The carrier sits in an east-west direction. The takeoff runway is south, the landing runway is north.

Takeoff always works as it should. When landing, however, the AI planes use one or the other runway, depending on whether they are coming from the north or the south.

I'm currently working around this by adding a northern waypoint to the flight plans.

But I would like to know if this is an unavoidable problem or if I have designed something wrong.

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gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 02 Oct 2023, 17:58

Really nobody? I would love to fix this without using the waypoint. The good news is that in the meantime we have a considerable fleet of carrier models.

Manschy · Post by **Manschy** » 03 Oct 2023, 09:06

Can't help Martin, but I have to say, these shots show an extremely exciting option of finally using all great carrier AI aircraft.
Hopefully you will get sorted out your issues.

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 03 Oct 2023, 09:52

Trying to fix it I have now all AI always landing on the catapult start runway... What a mess!

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Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 03 Oct 2023, 10:29

Something that is confusing me.
You said that the Carrier is pointing east-west and the runways are north and south.

The picture in my mind I don't believe is correct, although if it is then it could explain your issue.

Can you confirm the heading of the carrier, i.e. when you have an aircraft on the carrier what is the compass direction.
Also can you confirm the headings of the runways.

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 03 Oct 2023, 10:49

When I said runways are north south I meant that the one for landing is located above or north of the catapult start. Let me give you the detailed specs and I will attach the afcad.

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gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 03 Oct 2023, 10:51

27/09
137.3 m length (0.3 longer than catapult start, but I also had it shorter and the same length)
0.3 m width
heading 251.596684
Takeoff no on both ends
Landing yes on both ends
Has 1 x hold short

Runway for start:

29/11
137 m length
0.3 m width
heading 259.245505
Takeoff yes on 29, no on 11
Landing no on both ends
Has 1 x runway start and 1 x hold short

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 03 Oct 2023, 10:53

Here the source... please rename back to ad4

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 03 Oct 2023, 17:09

What I think might be happening here is that effect for multiple runways is in play (apologies but at the moment I can't recall the developers name or the actual name of the system).
In the example that I remember the author of the system placed multiple runways at the North Pole every 10 degs (I think) the upshot was that an aircraft would land on what ever runway was nearest to the direction that it approached from.

To prove, or disprove, this as a theory I would keep a backup of you current afcad and then remove the catapult runway. This should, if I understand things correctly, leave you with one runway and it will work fine for take offs and landings.

The author of the system did produce a .zip in which he describes the system but I can't remember the name of it. I bet that somebody will remember his name and the zip file.

I think that if I am correct then the only way to overcome what you are seeing is to read what is in that .zip file to see if you can tailor it or restrict it.

*EDIT*
It never ceases to amaze me what comes back to you when you leave the subject for a few minutes. The developer was Jim Vile and it was called the Xwind technique.

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 03 Oct 2023, 18:29

Good old Jim!

But if I am not very much mistaken, the purpose of his XWind technique is making AI use all available runways, no matter of the FlightSim pecking order of runway selection.

Or am I missing your point, Steve?

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Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 03 Oct 2023, 20:13

No you are right, but unless I read it wrong that is exactly what you are getting at the moment.

I think that in normal circumstances the multiple runways are hidden at the north pole but I also remember that we had an issue at one of the USN training bases, Meridian, that had multiple runways and the aircraft would land on the one closest to the direction they arrived from even if the runway was closed for landing.
I can't remember if we ever fixed that or not.

The reason of the test is to see if it is the case.

John Young · Post by **John Young** » 04 Oct 2023, 05:11

I think this is what you are referring to Steve.

John

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 04 Oct 2023, 05:16

Thanks for cutting this Gordian Knot for me, Steve.

I have removed the second runway. Now AI starts and lands from/on the landing runway. Catapults are overrated anyway…

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Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 04 Oct 2023, 05:56

Thanks JY, that is indeed the file I was thinking of.

Martin, simplifying it was always going to work.
I suppose I find it strange that nobody has come up with the issue before, but again maybe nobody has tried to create catapult runways. Taking into account that for nearly 20 years people have tried to get things more realistic I would find this strange.
I don't know if aircraft act differently depending upon if they are IFR or VFR for you original setup.

IF the issue was what I thought, then it would appear that a side effect of that is that the AI engine will ignore if a runway is set as take off only in that case and will allow an aircraft to land anyway.

It might be that Jim has something in his manual about it.

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 04 Oct 2023, 05:59

XRunways must be added manually in ADE, which I never did. So this can be surely ruled out.

And I might come back to play with this setup. Without endless experimenting many things would still be impossible today.

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Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 06 Oct 2023, 15:35

I still think, until proven otherwise that this is the cause. Two or more runway so close together.
I do not think that you were trying to create the effect just that you accidentally stumbled upon it when trying to be as accurate as you could be.

gsnde · Post by **gsnde** » 06 Oct 2023, 17:49

I have a nice pair of carriers in front of my island - the Nimitz and the Ark Royal - with lots of traffic, both jets and helicopters. They take off and land perfectly.

Plus a helicopter flying between the decks of two escort cruisers and destroyers.

This works from P3Dv3 to P3Dv6.

I will write a tutorial on how to do this.

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Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 06 Oct 2023, 18:29

That would indeed be an interesting read.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 06 Oct 2023, 23:19

Thanks Martin!

Manschy · Post by **Manschy** » 08 Oct 2023, 12:34

Fantastic news, Martin. I am very interested in getting my AI aircraft doing action on a carrier.

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