Sub Hunt Exercise off NAS Key West

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 22 Mar 2007, 16:01

After I finished my "Cope Asian Spirit" deployment, I wanted to do something special for the Navy side of Flight Sim. What I came up with was a Submarine Hunt Exercise involving the following aircraft.

P-3C
E-6B
S-3
HH-60N Seahawks
SH3H Seakings
F-18 (to protect the hunters)
C-130T (refuel)
RH-53S Sea Stallion

I deployed them to NAS Key West, Florida and set up an exercise zone (waypoint called SUBH). I also made up an AFCAD (6FL5) and placed 6 Los Angeles Class Submarines over a 500 square mile area using SUBH as the center of the AFCAD zone.

I then made up some local flightplans and here is some of the results. I am still in the testing phase but any ideas, suggestions would be helpful..

The screenshot shows one of the submarines from the P-3C I was flying, and yes the submarines do move.

sprocky · Post by **sprocky** » 22 Mar 2007, 16:25

Hi flyboy,

nice looking pics. Did you create flightplans for the subs and use it as "AI aircraft" ? If so, I would like to know how this can be made. Do they move from/to parking position ? How do they swim instead of flying ? Is this suitable for FS9 or is it just for FSX only (have heard FSX now moves AI ferries and other ships).

Thanks.

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 22 Mar 2007, 16:34

This is normally used in FS2004 only. The submarines move around just like taxing aircraft. You just make the taxi paths on water instead of land and you can make them a lot longer. Flight plans are made just like aircraft except what happens is, they leave their parking slot, taxi around a large circuit until they get to the runway, then disappear, reappear back at their parking slot and start again when programmed. I have close to 60 Naval vessels moving around in my Flight Sim. http://www.fs-shipyards.org/ is a good place to start and to download ships, AFCADs etc...

I have attached a screen shot of a test one I am working on. FSX has ferries, boat and ship traffic.

sprocky · Post by **sprocky** » 22 Mar 2007, 17:10

Nice link ! I guess I will have some ships in my FS shortly.

As I just started with creating my own FPs for FS (see topic German Navy Tornado) this might be some good excercise with AFCAD.

Thanks.

wktjr · Post by **wktjr** » 22 Mar 2007, 17:48

Looks great! As an old P-3 flyer, I'm up for anything that involves my favorite aircraft. P3superbee could probably chime in the ASW exercises as I was in the EW community and our exercises where a bit different.

On occasion, we would be the high-boy and I can still remember the EA-7's skimming the surface as they fly inbound at the ships simulating a cruise missile.

On other times, when I was flying out of Pax River, I flew on a EP-3B that had pods on the wings and belly and we would simulate the missile and evaluate how well the ships defenses "defended" against the threat. We flew between 100 and 1000 ft from every conceivable angle for 8-10 hrs. Then we would go back to Puerto Rico or Key West, drink heavily, an do it all over the next day. Ahhh, the memories.

If you could simulate that in FS it be quite impressive!

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 22 Mar 2007, 18:04

Presumably you don't mean the drinking

.

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 22 Mar 2007, 18:15

I really did not know how hard it was to spot a submarine running on the surface in 500 square miles of ocean.... I tried searching at 5000 feet with no luck, then came down to 1000 and flew a box pattern and found one. What makes this interesting is all the other "Hunters" I got flying over the same general area, from choppers at 2000 feet to a E-6 at around 10000. Very busy grid area..... Plan on setting up some more waypoints within the box and driving the different types to other locations. I can also place another AFCAD close by to put some surface vessels (small task force) close in to the search area......

wktjr · Post by **wktjr** » 22 Mar 2007, 18:53

flyboy wrote:I really did not know how hard it was to spot a submarine running on the surface in 500 square miles of ocean....

Try looking for a Japanese tourist on a wind surfer with a blue sail out of Guam..true story.

Seriously, as I think about it more, this is a nice concept and another nice example of the what can be done to enhance your FS experience. Personally, I going to look into a bit more to see what I can come up with.

drydocker · Post by **drydocker** » 22 Mar 2007, 19:32

Great job you are doing flyboy. You can have a carrier out there some where so your small planes can use it for home instead coming back to the beach so much. If you have a a-6, you can use it for tanker or an extra s-3.

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 22 Mar 2007, 20:22

We had several GIs lost off the cliffs on Andersen Guam plus a whole TDY tanker crew drowned at Sharks Hole while I was there. Guam can be a very dangerous place to play in the water, if you don't know the conditions.

Adding the Naval and Army side opens up a new side of Military AI. It is a lot of work because there is not a lot of ready made aircraft, etc. like the Air Force but for an ex-Air Force person, its a lot of fun to do.

drydocker wrote: You can have a carrier out there some where

I have about 30 carriers in all all over the world, most with AI traffic. Still wish we had a "landable moving carrier" in FS9.

Some ideas I have done Naval wise in my FS9:

A Naval Battle Group coming out of Norfolk down the Chesapeake Bay heading thru the Chesapeake Bay Tunnel and out into the Atlantic.

A Naval Battle Group coming out of Pearl Harbor Hawaii. Makes the departure out of Hickham AFB a lot more fun.

Commercial ships coming up from the Gulf of Mexico to New Orleans. This is one of the longest AFCADs I did (over 250 miles) and it works.

Added around 60 ships to all parts of the world. Sometimes I go sailing instead of flying, or cruising up a river thru New York or Sydney Harbor etc. There is a lot you can do in FS9

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 22 Mar 2007, 22:18

Some screenshots of Hunters departing KNQX. I am planning on relocating Sub Exercise point way farther out into the Gulf, along with the 5 new search waypoints I just added.

Just checked all package departures and all are leaving as planned.

Shots show E6, CH53, S3 and SH3 packages departing.. I have total of 16 aircraft divided into 5 packages.....

There is a total of 5 submarines, might change a couple of them to surface vessels as part of the search.

I hope to place a carrier close to the area (East of search area). Be fun to recover on one after doing the search.

I am keeping altitudes low for the helicopters (2000) , mid-range for P-3 (5000) and for the E6 (10000). Not sure if this is realistic but figured if I am on a ship at one of the waypoints, I should be able to hear or see them...

Misha_K · Post by **Misha_K** » 22 Mar 2007, 22:50

We need an AI CH-53!

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 23 Mar 2007, 00:20

Misha_K wrote:We need an AI CH-53!

and a whole lot more......Would be nice!!! This one flies alright, just does not taxi too good. I think that is because I have my taxi speeds accelerated..

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 23 Mar 2007, 15:28

More testing...here is a couple of the surface fleet and submarine test.

P3_Super_Bee · Post by **P3_Super_Bee** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:13

flyboy wrote:
SH53 ?? Making up aircraft as we go?

SH-3 ?? Havn't flown ASW in years. what left of 'em fly trash, and are SAR birds. But they are going away quicker than the S-3.

SH-60 is our ASW Helo.

I am keeping altitudes low for the helicopters (2000) , mid-range for P-3 (5000) and for the E6 (10000). Not sure if this is realistic but figured if I am on a ship at one of the waypoints, I should be able to hear or see them...

Some notes:

Not sure on helo's but 2000 sounds more like a transit altitude, not tactical.

P-3's are down on the water for ASW like 200 to 1000 feet... They actually work in Hunter/Killer teams. One down low dropping bouys, and hunting, one high about 4 to 5,000 reading the bouys and waiting to go in for the kill.

E-6's would but up in the 20's or 30's but have nothing to do with ASW. Emergency Communication for our subs, and since the death of the Cold War they play more with the old Air Farce "Looking Glass" mission. Nor would they be in Key West. Tinker(home), Pax River NAS for the east coast TACAMO alert, Travis AFB, the west coast TACAMO alert) and Offut AFB for the Looking Glass alert.

Can't remember the last time we did an ASWEX. The last one we had scheduled was canx'ed without a reschedule. ASW is a dying art.

drydocker wrote: If you have a a-6, you can use it for tanker or an extra s-3

The Navy hasn't flown the KA-6/A-6 about 15 years.

And I hate that P-3 repaint the freeking tail flash is backwards... Though not a fault of KBT, the jackasses in the squadron painted it backwards...

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:04

P3_Super_Bee wrote:
flyboy wrote:
SH53 ?? Making up aircraft as we go?

SH-3 ?? Havn't flown ASW in years. what left of 'em fly trash, and are SAR birds. But they are going away quicker than the S-3.

SH-60 is our ASW Helo.

What do you expect from an old Air Force bird? Idea is to get em flying somewhere other than in circles.....

Here is a sight you do not see much in Flight Sim. Added my surface Group and was trying to sneak up on them...

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:07

The submarine is from Ron Jeffer and can be found on http://www.fs-shipyards.org/. He even has one that goes underwater and fires a torpedo.

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:20

I watch the "Hunters" depart again and went out to one of the search point on one of my sailable ships. You can hear the aircraft circling over head on the different sectors.

I will show you one of my Sub Hunt AFCAD design,...it covers a large area. Inside this AFCAD I have made 5 waypoint AFCADs to sent the aircraft to. So what you get is the Naval traffic inside the box with the aircraft flying overhead.

P3_Super_Bee · Post by **P3_Super_Bee** » 24 Mar 2007, 09:02

On the 53's is there a Minesweeper ship or something of that nature at the Shipyard AI site? (can't remember the name of it, at work)... One thing to do there could be to put them in the Gulf of Mexico, or the Persian Gulf for that matter with the MH-53's working with them... If in the Gulf of Mexico it would be off towards Texas as HM-15 is based at Corpus.

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » 24 Mar 2007, 14:40

Most of these deployments, exercises, even flightplans I do are a figment of my imagination. My idea is to try to make the AI have a purpose other than fly from base to base, or TNGs.

In today's security environment, I am not so sure we should give out too much information. One of the biggest things hammered in our heads when I was in SAC was OPSEC (Operational Security). We did not discuss where our planes were parked at, which one was mission-ready, how many assigned or available or where any was going.

In the 1980s, at Shaw AFB, right after we transitioned to F-16s, a van was parked along US 76/378 outside the fence during most of our exercises. The AFOSI (Air Force Office of Special Investigation) finally checked it out because people noticed it there every exercise. What they found was the person was recording launch times, turn-around times, load-outs etc. He had a snaphot of what a F-16 wing could do as far as mission capability. So if it can happen right outside our doors, where else?

I know there is a lot of military information is on the net, I do my research also. But sometimes, I think its best not to tell all. Just my opinion......