AI BlackHawk

[MIKE JG]

John, how about this one?

[MIKE JG]

I keed, I keed!

[John Young]

Do we know enough about this one Mike - a reliable 3-view drawing, paint reference and unit identity? I had considered it, but wasn't sure about the authenticity of what I was getting back from my research.

It would need a lot of re-work to the models I already have, but I can appreciate the interest. If there's some more reliable information available, I'll give it a go.

Is that a flyable model in the illustration and is it available?

John

[MIKE JG]

No to all of your questions.

Everything on line about the "stealth" helicopter used in the Bin Laden raid is pure speculation at this point. All the rendering etc. are just that. One little piece of the tail section that the thermite failed to melt is all anyone has to go on.

I'm sure we'll see it one day in the future but looking at all of the model renderings online is a fun way to pass the time.

There is no value in trying to model one other than from a pure 'just for fun' stand point.

[John Young]

I thought that was the case Mike. I'll do the established Hawk family first and then when the decks are cleared, maybe have some fun with the stealth.

John

[Victory103]

John,

I knew it would happen some day in the mil AI community, outstanding progress so far on the Pavehawks.

For your initial models, all "A's" have the HIRSS "boxed" exhaust, so there are only a few small external changes to tell an "A" from a "L". These would be the baseline of all older 'Army" models, with paint changes they can replicate the USN MH-60S in a clean config and most of the initial exports. Although you have to add the square stab to the USN models. The 60M would require the up-turned exhaust, new blade tips and square stabilator.

On the Navy Seahawks, the 60B and 60R are close but the R gets all the new boxes/antenna. The -60B just went into "sundown" status and maybe the HH-60H is right behind as the USN goes to an all R/S fleet. The 60J/T and 60H are similar, with the H getting the boxed exhaust, guns, 4xHellfire missile rack, and FLIR. Missile warning sensors could be added to the texture sheets, but I noticed you modeled them in on the Pavehawks.

[John Young]

Chris, I've done the UH-60L for FS9 and I'm just about to convert it for FSX also. Next job is to make an "A" model with the earlier engine intake and exhausts, followed by an alternative "L" model with stub wings and fuel tanks.

The Navy ones are quite a puzzle. What should I make?

John

[Garysb]

Then there are the S-70's

Had to throw that in

Sorry John

Gary

[John Young]

The S70s are export models? They look the same externally at the "L". So I'm going to assume that the "L" that I'm producing (with and without stub wings) can be painted by anyone who wants them for a particular country.

It's the Navy models I really need to decide on.

[clickclickdoh]

Some of the S-70s are A models, like the ones Taiwan has.. and I think the Mexican police. So yeah, between the A and L model, there should be something to represent the vast majority of aircraft out there. Maybe an antenna or two out of place, but I think we can all live with that to have such a beautiful model in the sim.

[Garysb]

Magic will live with that

Gary

[Firebird]

I know what you mean, John.

The on the face of it you need the B, J/K and R all have an obvious lineage but I am guessing that the lumps and bumps are very diverse, whereas the MH-60S is based on the UH-60L. What I don't know is where the F is different from the B, I know it has a dipping sonar.

HH-60/MH-60 Jayhawk is definitely different although based on the B.

[Woogey]

Hello John, I have to say thank you for all your hard work! Ripcord and I are doing a Little U.S. Army project for FSX/P3d that will be very much enhanced by both your PaveHawk and Uh-60L/M models. I can't wait!

To add to your question about the Sikorsky S-70 series. There are 3 distinctly different "Bodies." All the variations are just lumps and bumps added to these 3 basic bodies. The initial examples of said bodies were the UH-60A (Army), the SH-60B (Navy), and the HH-60J (Coast Guard). The initial Army models had a trapezoidal horizontal stabilizer, and Navy/ C.G./ Airforce Variants have always had the square wings. All H-60 models currently in production have square wings. I will elaborate on the other models if you would like John, or I can instant message you. -Woog

[Woogey]

The differences mainly refer to the Left side of the Airframe and also the landing gear location. The Navy's MH-60S is virtually identical with the Army's new UH-60M when configured as a "Slick." This website pretty well covers all the variations: http://www.airforceworld.com/heli/eng/helo.htm -Woog

[Victory103]

John, to help out my background is the USN H-60F/H and Army -60A/L. For your USN question, really the MH-60S would be my first choice as more squadrons have transitioned to them as the Romeo continues to come online replacing the Bravo. Again the detail noticed in the Pavehawks would force me to request the FLIR mount at least for the S. The armed version would feature stub wings for the gun/Hellfire/rockets. The F and H are truly on the way out, although I would not mind seeing them both in the sim. The F would take the basic B and remove the radar, ESM antennas (squares on nose/mid-section), MAD boom. The sonar is internal, so only need to add the RADALT antenna to the underside of the F nose. In the F we also always had a left 120gal tank on, same on the H model. The Jayhawk also carries tanks, to include the smaller 80gal on the right side.

The S-70 is the export version and most are initially based on the UH-60A for the 70A and the SH-60B for the 70B. As an export, whatever the customers wanted to pay for will change the basic model, ie the RAA S-70A's with square stabs. S-70i now produced in Poland has the basics of the L model.

Later on I would assume the US Army "special" Hawks would get a look in the MH-60L/K/M/DAP series.

[Woogey]

Chris probably knows his stuff just a bit more intimately than I. If I may add a little more info. For the Navy birds, an SH-60F is the most stripped down version of the Navy hawks with a Fixed single window on the port side. These were delivered without any "Frills," but share the same basic body as the SH-60B. The HH-60H "Rescue Hawk" was the most stripped down version of the Navy Birds with the dual sliding windows. The Rescue Hawks share the same basic body as the U.S.C.G's HH-60J Jayhawk model. Both the SH-60F, and the HH-60H should be considered as the most basic models of Navy birds. From these you can add antennae, weapons pylons, and Sensors to make the other more capable and distinctive birds. -Woog

[John Young]

I'm slightly confused by all that information, but it seems that a popular choice for the Navy version would be the MH-60S with FLIR. Is it in fact the same as the UH-60M? The 60S photos I've just looked at have the more common slotted engine exhausts, while the 60M has the new top configured exhausts. Since I was planning to make the 60M I can add a FLIR to that and paint as a Naval 60S, alternatively I can add the FLIR to my 60L that's just come off the production line (FS9 at the moment) and repaint that one as a 60S:

Which one do I use for the basis of the 60S please?

John

[clickclickdoh]

While we are deciding on some model specific details, is there any way to mod the Pavehawk model so when they first activate it plays a "LEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRROY JENKINS!" sound effect?





Yes, I am 100% completely joking.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/i ... at-rescue/

[dworjan]

John,

For the Navy 60's, they're going to the Romeos and Sierras and replacing all of the Bravos, Foxtrots and Hotels. I am pretty sure the Foxtrots and Hotels are all gone, and I know the Bravos are.

The Sierra design is based on the UH-60L but with the same Navy engines and rotors as all the other Navy 60's. It has the 60L's HIRSS. The other main difference between the Sierra and the 60L is the foldable tail. It is capable of carrying the Army-style high mounted batwing weapons pylons and has the FLIR mounting plate in front of the nose (but neither the weapons pylons nor the actual FLIR ball are mounted all the time).

The Romeo is based on the Bravo airframe and has the tricycle landing gear and sonobuoy launcher on the portside. The Romeo does not have HIRSS or the MAD probe, but does have the big sea scan radar mounted underneath the cockpit. It has the lower stub wings for torpedoes and Hellfires. The portside stub extends out further (hardpoints for two stores) and is removable. The Romeo has the FLIR mounting plate on the nose, and does nearly always carry the FLIR ball (which is mounted 'upside down' on the top of the plate so it doesn't interfere with the radar).

So as far as the US Navy goes, all the current aircraft are Romeos or Sierras.

The Coast Guard has finished upgrading all of its Jayhawks to the MH-60T standard. They're all based on the SH-60 design with the tricycle landing gear. No HIRSS, nose mounted weather radar, provision for the undernose FLIR ball. They're also capable of carrying the Navy-style lower stub wings and use them to carry up to three long range fuel tanks.

If there is anything I can do to help with the Navy or Coast Guard 60s, just let me know. If I don't have the answer I can definitely get it for you.

Chris

[clickclickdoh]

Let me see if I'm getting what you are saying Dworjan, with pictures to help my addled mind.

Current MH-60R:



Curent MH-60S:



Is that correct?