Californian Blues

[BaiterOne]

Hi,

I have been trying to perfect my flying in a C182 in FS2004.

I have been following some hints given on a website called Fly the Wing, by Garry Wing.

He flies in the SOCAL area, around KSEE Gillespie, KRNM Ramona, KSDM Brown, KCRQ Palomar and KMYF Montgomery.

When I load up any of those airports I appear to be able to fly in the area fine. but, when I call up the Map Screen, the sim locks and then crashes.

While parked at any of the airports above, or flying in their vicinity, I can CTRL+S and then zoom out to see all of USA with crashing.

I can also view the area on GPS without hassle.

In an effort to find the problem, I took out all my traffic files but that made no difference.

I have not updated KLAX at all.

As I keep up-to-date with MAIW, and have loaded all of the US packages, I figured that perhaps the problem was with one of those, or some interference from one package to another.

I took out the airports that I remembered changing as part of packages - Andrews and Miramar stood out - but it crashes still.

I wouldn't be very familiar with what MAIW packages pertain to that area.

Is there any other airport or package that I should consider disabling in order to eliminate them as the problem?

Anything to prevent me having to do the 50% scenery disabling trick!

With 3 minute load times it takes forever!

[JohnTenn]

Walter

The map crashes are sometimes caused by afcads or an updated navaids pack.
If there is an afcad that contains a VOR or NDB that has the same name, and/or frequency, but is moved it will cause this.

Look for readme's that say navaids updated. Off hand I think it is no longer possible to move navaids with ADE. If you have converted FSX layouts back to FS9 you may also have this.

If you fly VFR and do not select the frequencies it will perhaps not cause the crash.

Other crashes are linked to old landclass modifications FS2002 or early FS2004.

In short it will be a scenery close to where the crash occurs.

John

[Victory103]

In Andrews did you mean Edwards AFB? SOCAL has several packages that could be giving you grief. There are several versions of Miramar out with the Tomcat Sunset/Top Gun and then MCAS Miramar.

Even in FSX, I install one pack at a time, load up the sim and start from a different airport. After scenery and AI check out, I look to install the next package. I have over 20k AI, so my FSX takes forever to load up. The map screen is a pretty big FPS hit and can cause something else to crash, are you using any sort of program monitor or App crash? These would pinpoint the dll or file causing the issues.

[BaiterOne]

Thank you, John and Chris, for replying.

It was indeed Edwards AFB that I had found in FS Commander on my search for adjacent airports and airfields. It was, however, Andrews AFB that I disabled in mt attempts to fix the problem. Thanks for pointing that error out to me. (only a few miles in the difference )

I have now done all I can to eliminate KEDW as the source of the problem, but to no avail.

The error according to the event log is:

Faulting application name: fs9.exe, version: 9.1.0.40901, time stamp: 0x4135a208
Faulting module name: SYMMAP.DLL, version: 9.0.0.30612, time stamp: 0x3ee946b8
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x00013607
Faulting process id: 0x92c
Faulting application start time: 0x01d2f1bddcbd31f2
Faulting application path: F:\FlightSim\FS2004\fs9.exe
Faulting module path: F:\FlightSim\FS2004\MODULES\SYMMAP.DLL
Report Id: f0d6aa44-a7da-4236-b4cc-81ad1f7bfbcd
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

I replaced SYMMAP from a saved fresh copy of FS2004 but as I expected, that did no good.

On the NAVAID front I have frequently updated FS2004 using the FS9 World Navaids package on http://www.aero.sors.fr, so anything could be anywhere now.

Here comes two days of disabling and enabling...

This is so much fun

[BaiterOne]

So I settled down to solving this problem.

I disabled all of the add-on US scenery in the first instance - no joy.

I then went through the remainder (590 in all), disabling them 100 at a time until I had nothing left to disable - and still no joy!

So now I have no add-on scenery, no FS Global 2005 and no Ultimate Terrain.

The Scenery Library now has only those entries that came with the original FS2004.

I do have all of the United States covered by FS Genesis - but there is a lot of work to undo those.

One nice thing in all this gloom - at some stage during the work I realised that, since I had no AI Traffic, therefore I could do without AI Aircraft - now I have an Aircraft folder with two Cessnas in it. The sim loads up in 30 secs instead of slightly over 3 minutes previously! The airports and skies are vey quiet - sssshhhh!

If I have an hour or two to spare tomorrow I might try taking out the FS Genesis stuff for California and surrounding areas.

I will have to consult an atlas or Google maps to figure out which ones to undo.

Should be fun.

[Firebird]

Actually, I think I may know your problem.

In your diags you posted :-

Faulting application name: fs9.exe, version: 9.1.0.40901, time stamp: 0x4135a208
Faulting module name: SYMMAP.DLL, version: 9.0.0.30612, time stamp: 0x3ee946b8

Well that shows that you are using FS9 with 9.1 patch, but the symmap.dll is the 9.0 version. This is why it crashes when you open it.
I checked to make sure it was updated in the patch and sure enough my one is 9.01.040901.01

So I am trying to think how this may have happened.

The most logical reason is that you are using the FS9 NoCD patch for the 9.1 version but you haven't actually installed the 9.1 patch.
Now there are of course loads of other reasons but personally, I would say that before you do anything else, copy your NoCD pact exe to somewhere safe (if you are using one) and install/reinstall the FS9.1 patch.

Then copy back your NoCD patch.

My guess is that your problems will be solved.

[BaiterOne]

Steve, you have good eyesight - nice spot.

I had a few crashes and hardware updates recently so things must have gotten out of sync.

I put things back in order but unfortunately

Faulting application name: fs9.exe, version: 9.1.0.40901, time stamp: 0x4135a208
Faulting module name: SYMMAP.DLL, version: 9.1.0.40901, time stamp: 0x4135a88e
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x00013607
Faulting process id: 0x170c
Faulting application start time: 0x01d2f24632f79f95
Faulting application path: F:\FlightSim\FS2004\fs9.exe
Faulting module path: F:\FlightSim\FS2004\MODULES\SYMMAP.DLL
Report Id: 4509883e-cfe8-451f-9c07-1a52599a93e7
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

I think what I will do is to put everything back together and simply avoid the area.

Thanks to those of you who replied for all your abundant energy and abilities.

[Firebird]

OK, so did you just replace the symmap.dll or did you re-install the 9.1 patch?

It might be worth backing up your fs9 folder and try installing it again.
What should happen is that it says that it is already installed and, I think, give the chance to back out the update. Then try re-installing.

I also read somewhere that this problem can occur if you have a corrupted saved flt.
It might be worth trying to back up your .FLT files and deleting all there and then backing up your fs9.cfg and let the system rebuild it. I have cleared issues a number of times by doing that.

[BaiterOne]

Steve, first I had simply copied them from a backup I had.

When you posted I uninstalled the FS9.1 patch, then re-installed it and put in the NoCD patch.

It felt good to do it that way but the results unfortunately were the same.

I only had a few flights saved but deleting them made no difference.

I have returned to my home airport of EIWT Weston to practise what Garry Wing preaches.

I can call up the Map Screen here without CTD.

The runways are a bit shorter and the airport surroundings are more cramped - but the scenery is a lot greener!

[Firebird]

So to check, even after all that and having FS9 rebuild the fs9.cfg you still get the same problem in the same place, even after disabling all of your add-on scenery?

So at the moment you should have no addons, just the MS defaults, and it still crashes?

Just to see what would happen i went to KSEE and opened the map, something I haven't done for years, and it was fine.

So what I would try is this, to see if there is some other part that is corrupt.
1. Firstly ensure that your scenery.cfg, terrain.cfg and fs9.cfg files are copied somewhere safe. Ensure that have a back up of your current FS9 folder and sub-folders, otherwise you will lose things like effects and gauges.
2.As you have a backup of your current FS9.1 and a backup of the original FS9, delete your FS9.1 folder and copy your backup FS9 to the same location and rename your C:\Users\xxx\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FS9 folder to C:\Users\xxx\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FS9_saved
2. Load up FS9, which from what you said should be the original version, and let it build the cfg file and the default flt.
3. See if it crashes when loading the map at KSEE.
4. IF it is OK then install FS9.1 patch and load it up and test again.
5. Rename the new scenery.cfg and copy back your current one and all the scenery that has been backed up. Then reload and test again.
6. Copy back from your effects and gauges folders and re-test.
7. Finally copy back your aircraft folder and terrain.cfg and final re-test.

Hopefully it should still be working and then you can start to mod things back the way you had them, like copying your joystick settings from your saved fs9.cfg to your current one. A nice compare proggie would help here.


IF I understand everything correctly it still crashes in step 3 then something is wrong in your original FS9 backup and I would suggest re-installing. Now if that is the case you may decide that this is too much hassle and you will just avoid using the map in that area, as you have proved it works at the moment.

If it fails in step 5 then that proves that it is some addon scenery that is causing the issue and like suggested earlier in the thread it is likely that the author of that has minced around with some beacon or other. Don't forget that it may not be scenery that you have added to the scenery.cfg it may some that you have have just thrown into the general \Addon Scenery\scenery folder.
It could also be some addon that was suggested that it was placed in the \Scenery\Generic\scenery or \Scenery\BASE\Scenery folders. If this was the case the problem would be picked even with just the default MS scenery.

Hopefully, it will all work and then you can compare your new installation and your backup and see what other addons you have not added back yet but at least you can copy them back one at a time until you get the error.

I hope this helps.

[BaiterOne]

Steve, I have been a very busy boy today.

I carried out all the steps you outlined as best I could.

The original FS9 wouldn't run on Win 10, so I had to apply the FS9.1 patch and then the NoCD patch before I could look at testing it.

That testing went well - no problems with the Map Screen it appeared.

I reloaded my full add-on scenery, textures, effects and gauges and all appeared well still.

A minor glitch when I was at KSEE which I thought I solved by using DXTFixerX.

Then a line-by-line test of my own stored fs9.cfg against the one created by Microsoft in the new scheme, testing the Map Screen after each [section].

I thought I had it solved - when the SHOW_INTERSECTIONS= was set to 1 in the [MAPVIEW_MAP] section, the Map Screen crashed the sim, when set to 0 it didn't appear to do so.

Then I encountered what the real sickener was.

If I entered the Map Screen over KMYF, everything was fine - I could zoom in and out, look at the descriptions, no problem.

Then when I got out of the Map Screen and went back in, it crashed!

Same at KSEE and KSDM.

So all my afternoon was wasted, more or less

It seems like I might always have been able to get into the Map Screen and it would have worked, first time. Certainly not the second time.

The second time in, the Map seems to have no terrain displayed on it, even though it showed perfectly the first time in.

This is not the case over Ireland which is where I fly normally - I can visit the Map Screen as often as I wish.

Even over Edwards AFB it didn't crash - but a few miles further south it goes bang, not on the first visit to the Map Screen but certainly on the second.

So it looks like I am going to have to repeat the test from the beginning, visiting the Map Screen a second time in each step.

Not in the next few days though - I am suffering from accute FS-induced fatigue.

All this not helped by the fact that REX for FS2004 has begun to act up - showing the weather for the west coast of USA while I am flying in Ireland.

Not a good weekend for me!

[Firebird]

Well that is frustrating but it seems like you made progress.

You are correct about FS9 not running on Win10 that is because have removed the ability for it to use the CD security mechanism. Not disabled like the other systems but removed it entirely. You have no option but to use the NoCD patches.

So in essence,
Did it work fully at KSEE after the FS9 restore?
DId it work fully at KSEE after the FS9.1 update?
Did the problems appear only after you copied your saved stuff back across?
When you copied stuff back across did you check after each part , i.e. after \Scenery\BASE\Scenery then \Scenery\Generic\scenery then \Addon Scenery\scenery etc, before you got to your dedicated addon folders?

I double checked the map at my KSEE and found no issues. I zoomed in and out fine, then exited and went back in again and did the same just fine.

I looked at my Mapview settings, just in case, and these are what I have. Although I don't recall having changed them from the default.

[MAPVIEW_MAP]
SHOW_AIRPORTS=1
SHOW_VORS=1
SHOW_NDBS=1
SHOW_APPROACHES=1
SHOW_INTERSECTIONS=0
SHOW_VICTOR=0
SHOW_JET=0
SHOW_AIRSPACE=1
SHOW_FLIGHTPLAN=1
SHOW_WEATHERSTATIONS=0
SHOW_WEATHERSYSTEMS=0
SHOW_DATATAGS=1
SHOW_TERRAIN=1
show_flight_history=1

There is one thing that I noticed on the map is that KSEE is very close to Miramar and to the Imperial Beach scenery that was released not that long ago. Now I don't think that they are the problem, as they and their details appear on my map but I wondered if you have got either some FSX scenery afcad included on your system or some FS9 with some beacon outside FS9 limits.

What I mean is that in recent years quite a few people have been adding real life freqs for comms and beacons and some have proved out of the limits for FS9. I had an awful time trying to get The Miramar comms sorted out to work. I never realised what a problem it could be until aircraft wouldn't clear the runway because they couldn't contact Ground.

One last thing thing, whilst time and space consuming, it might be worth saving your installation after every step passes your test so that if it re-occurs at least you don't have to start again from scratch.

[BaiterOne]

Steve, I will probably venture down that dark alley again next week-end - armed with past experiences and your suggestions, perhaps I might even come out the other end happier (or insane!).

[BaiterOne]

I know, I know, I said that I would try getting to the cause of these blues over last weekend - but...

The weather was absolutely gorgeous here, not the sort of weather you would sacrifice for hours slaving over a hot computer keyboard

Instead I got myself a fairly severe sunburn out planespotting at my local field - didn't realise it was quite that hot .

Postponed 'til next weekend.

[BaiterOne]

I had a few hours to spare this afternoon so I set about the task of problemsolving.

I followed Steve's step by step approach, from a fresh copy of FS, through FS9.1, adding in all the bits and pieces from my problem setup in easy stages, until the FS that I have now resembles the FS9 that I had 2 weeks ago.

The problem now is - there is no problem!!!!!

I can load up the previously problematical airports in California, fly in and out, call up the Map Screen there, have full details on it, zoom in and out, do this over and over - and no CTDs.

A thing of great beauty and a joy to behold.

A bit of a mystery too as to why it worked this time and not the last time - but, since the outcome could not be better, I am extrememly happy (and mystified ).

Thanks again for stirring me into working from a fresh reload.

Now I can catch up on the last two weeks of great-looking releases in the Download Hangar - and get used to having traffic flying around again.

[BaiterOne]

Forget my previous post!!

I reloaded all my aircraft.

I reloaded all my Traffic files.

I reloaded my 2 saved flights.

CTDS again in California! Incredible!

Took out the aircraft, traffic and flights - back to the setup as it was this afternoon, but the CTDs continue.

Earlier on I had restarted FS2004 quite a few times to ensure that CTDs were not happening - and they weren't.

Now they are!

I am giving up.

[Firebird]

OK that is progress. Can I take it that you didn't take a backup of the clean system before you started adding back?

I will take you at your word that all you did was add the 3 things back. but I have to ask did you modify your fs9.cfg, possibly to add in your joystick assignments?

So the fact is that we have ruled out a scenery issue as you had not added any of that back, nor had you added back other files from the \scenery folder nor your terrain.cfg . Whilst the cause remains elusive we have narrowed it down. I can't for the life of me understand why it should be happening but if you only added the files stated, and have since removed them then only thing thing would have changed - the fs9.cfg file and the default.flt file. Try renaming then and seeing if that cures the issue.

After renaming and starting fs9 again new files will be built, and providing it fixes the issue, what you can then do is compare the saved cfg and flt files against the current ones. If you don't have a compare proggy I can do that for you.

In the past I have had problems with AI aircraft that have been cured by rebuilding one of both of them.