A brand new MS Flight Simulator is coming...

[Bora]

Did not see this one coming...

[Trevytt2004]

update from microsoft..

Will Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 be a completely standalone sequel, or will it also be offered as a paid update for existing players?

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 is a standalone simulator and the next-generation sequel to Microsoft Flight Simulator that launched in 2020. Current aircraft and airports that are in Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020), as well as virtually all Marketplace add-ons, will be supported in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024.

What kind of support can Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) players expect to see once Flight Simulator 2024 has been released?

We will continue to deliver our Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) Roadmap which has content ranging from Aircraft and Avionics Updates, Sim Updates, City and World Updates, and also the free Dune DLC 24. We will continue to support Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) post the Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 launch.

Will all purchases users have made from the Marketplace be transferrable to the new simulator?

With very few exceptions, virtually all add-ons that work in Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) today will function in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024. Add-ons that were purchased from the in-simulator Marketplace will not need to be re-purchased in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024.

[John Young]

Why do Asobo feel the need to do this in parallel to MSFS2020? What is it an admission of?

I was amused by the A-10s in the video. Microsoft have a policy of not allowing weapons on aircraft models sold through the Marketplace (freeware is OK I think). It's why Ian had to delete those on my static Typhoons before including them to his pay-ware Coningsby package. In the video the GAU-8 gun in the A-10 nose is replaced with a landing light!

John

[Firebird]

So have have gone back to the old model of new versions? It obviously boils down to money.
Is it simply that the new sales has dropped down below a sustainable level for the company and therefore they need to go back to the well for more money.

They underestimated the desire for the paid upgrades available through the marketplace.

It seems, from the video, that this new version is purely to add to enable new features. I liken this to the new version of the Reno Air Racing pack, which was way to expensive for what it was. It looks like if you want to fly you can use/stay with MSFS. If you want to do activities then you have to use MSFS2024 which will have the framework for some activities.

Time will tell whether I have it correct or not.

[PB68]

..I'd be very surprised if they fix all of the issue's with the MSFS2020 offline AI Aircraft Traffic now. This is surely not going to happen with what has recently been announced.

John, when do you want me to start on that Garden, I can't help feeling that I am going to be redundant for quite a while ????

[John Young]

It's just further diluting and complicating the mix of sims, particularly for usable AI, without first resolving the problems and restoring any trust after a broken product. I'm reluctant to be stung twice.

With the inability to release anything here at MAIW anyway, the garden is by far the best option for now Pete.

John

[TimC340]

I too didn't see this coming, but I suspect the accountants at Microsoft weren't too happy with the commitment to endlessly update MSFS 20 with no revenue! And I also suspect that the updates Asobo wanted to do weren't easily possible in the MSFS 20 codebase. It fits the model of the earlier versions of MSFS, and for that matter X-Plane and P3D also. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

Will it be more AI-friendly? Let's hope so. AI is an essential part of creating a living world within a flight simulator, and Microsoft have in the past shown they understand that. They have attempted to make it work in FS20, but its origins in the FS9/X engine haven't translated well to the newer sim, and Asobo's SDK has steadily eroded the understood processes to the point where even professionally-created AI programs (Just Flight's Traffic, for example) don't work as they should.

Whether MAIW can be part of the FS24 picture, who knows?

[TheFoufure]

Best way is a come back to FSX and FS9 !!!!! loool

[Firebird]

Thinking some more about this, the only way that I can currently understand this is that MSFS and MSFS2024 will have the same base engines. The difference will be that the new version will be the only one with the added extras. Almost like an Ultimate Premium Deluxe version.
To have different component engines would mean more work, more support and more expense for them. Doesn't make sense.

If I am correct the question then becomes what parts of the current system do they thing is good enough not to alter, or unfixable enough in its present format that they can fix with a new system.

[VulcanDriver]

Will proberly need a 2024 PC to run it on. I'm sticking with FSX thanks

[TimC340]

Best way is a come back to FSX and FS9 !!!!! loool

Absolutely not! P3Dv5 is just fine, thanks!

Thinking some more about this, the only way that I can currently understand this is that MSFS and MSFS2024 will have the same base engines. The difference will be that the new version will be the only one with the added extras. Almost like an Ultimate Premium Deluxe version.
To have different component engines would mean more work, more support and more expense for them. Doesn't make sense.

If I am correct the question then becomes what parts of the current system do they thing is good enough not to alter, or unfixable enough in its present format that they can fix with a new system.

I suspect it'll be like the move from FS9 to FSX, where the refinements in textures, aircraft animations and capabilities, and other improvements will only be available to objects written to the new standards, but objects created for FS20 will still work but won't be as good as the new stuff. Whether someone will create conversion protocols that will allow the older stuff to be updated by the likes of us is something we'll just have to wait and find out.

I note that Kai has very recently commented on the latest iteration of AIG Traffic Control here in the forum, after Pete (PB68) made a post showing it working in FS20, implying that he hopes it continues to work in FS24! However, I understand that AIGTC is subject (in FS20) to the same problems that Just Flight Traffic is, which are caused by the MSFS AI engine and are not correctable by third-party input. I've detailed them elsewhere, but Just Flight refer to them on their website. Asobo imply in their latest developer update that their repair work on AI is done as far as they are concerned, and they are giving no clues as to whether or when they might improve it. Possibly that's a feature they've worked on for FS24?

[TimC340]

I've just popped over to FSDeveloper to see how they're reacting. The short answer is: they aren't! I guess until some of the developers get to grips with the SDK we won't know what the differences are under the hood. Hopefully that'll come soon.

In other news over there, Jon (Scruffyduck) Masterson has announced his retirement. ADE will get no more updates or improvements. Hopefully it will continue to work for our sims up to P3Dv5, but the development of ADE for MSFS will stop, and it was far from complete. I think, like John Young, Jon was finding that the continual and often illogical changes to the FS20 SDK were so frustrating that it just wasn't worth continuing.

[Kaiii3]

Asobo is still working on the AI system and we send them regular ideas on how to improve stuff. The biggest issue is that the open AI developer Job is still not filled since 3 or 4 years now.....
Based on the direct feedback from ASOBO we work on workarounds that will be implemented into AIGTC (there are currently already around 3 or 4 workarounds included).

[TimC340]

Thanks Kai. I must have a look at the latest version of AIGTC and see how I get on with it!

Edit: as I can't find a download link for the MSFS version of AIGTC, I assume it's not yet available to the public?

[msm8378]

Thank goodness I chose to stick with FS2004 unrelentingly. As someone who is 60+ years old the adage "newer is not always better" is ringing the bells hard and loud... Granted, the work done for FSX and P3D looks phenomenal, but FS2004 and MAIW fit like a glove once upon a time and I am thoroughly enjoying each and every flight still today...

[Kaiii3]

Thanks Kai. I must have a look at the latest version of AIGTC and see how I get on with it!

Edit: as I can't find a download link for the MSFS version of AIGTC, I assume it's not yet available to the public?

http://www.alpha-india.net/software/

[TimC340]

Aha! Thanks!

[Firebird]

A little more info from a third party website which has a track record of having good intel.

Whilst a lot of stuff is still to be made available the following is reported to be accurate.

• FS2024’s in-sim engine and gameplay differ from MSFS, so it is a standalone product and the next-generation sequel to MSFS.
• With very few exceptions, all add-ons that work in MSFS today will be compatible with FS2024 as well.
• Add-ons purchased from the MSFS in-sim Marketplace will not need to be re-purchased in FS2024.

Now to me the important thing is the first point. This seems to point to the fact that issues that are outstanding in MSFS will not be fixed UNLESS they are being fixed for MSFS24.
Scenery and aircraft seem to be indicated that they are compatible across versions but the new engines imply that there are issues that can't be fixed in the current engines or are prohibitively difficult to fix. Hence, new engines and a new version to pay for the work.

If my supposition is correct then it could be that the AI engine is one of those things that just can't be fixed, properly, in the current version.

If so it is a shame that it took 3 years for the decision to be taken to accept reality.

My guess is that we will have to wait for MSFS24 for operationally acceptable AI packages.

In case my words upset some people please remember that this is purely my take on three bullet points and not cast iron fact.

[TimC340]

I don't disagree with you, Steve, except that - given Kai's info above that Asobo have failed to fill the AI specialist role for 3 or 4 years I'm not holding out a lot of hope that FS24 will be a lot better than FS20 in this respect. I hope I'm wrong!

[Firebird]

Definitely a point worth making, Tim.
Asobo have not made a priority of AI so far and I can't see that changing. I am just being positive.

My main hope is that DX12 Ultimate and therefore DirectStorage will be implemented for FS24. It has so far been curiously absent from FS20 plans. Maybe it is one of those things that required a lot of resources to implement - which brings us back to money.